www.BloodandCustard.com

 

SOUTHERN RAILWAY’S
AUGMENTED SUB UNITS

 

Contents

Units 4131‑4171

Units 4172-4194

Units 4195-4215

Units 4216-4234

Units 4235-4250

Units 4250-4257

Units 4300-4325

Units 4326-4354

 

Summary of Units 4401-4516

Units 4401-4405

Units 4406-4410

Units 4411-4423

Units 4424-4429

Units 4430-4431

Units 4432-4501

Units 4502-4516

Units 4517-4614

 

 

 

BR(S) Liveries

1956-57 Reformed Units 4501-4518

De-Icing Units
S90 & S91

 

Models

 

Plans for Augmentation of the 3-car Suburban (SUB) Units

During 1937 a decision was taken by the SR operating management to progressively abandon the operation of two coach trailer sets in the suburban area and augment the three coach motor units to four coaches, using some of the displaced coaches from the disbanded trailer units. At this time, electrification of the suburban network was virtually completed, and the main line schemes to Portsmouth were under conversion. With the deteriorating international situation, tentative plans for further expansion of the third rail into Kent & Sussex were not progressed. The suburban services were also under some pressure with overcrowding due to success of the improved services in attracting extra traffic.

Plans were drawn up to begin the replacement of the suburban stock with ‘second generation’ vehicles; these would be to a new design using curved welded‑steel bodysides 9’ 0” wide which would then allow six-aside seating, increasing train capacities without having to increase train lengths which would involve considerable expenditure altering platforms, track layouts and signalling with some heavy engineering in certain locations to create space.

Apart from fifty-five contractor built units new in 1925/6 with 8‘ 6“ wide bodies, the bulk of the suburban fleet was made up of converted former steam hauled suburban coach bodies mounted onto SR standard 62' 0" underframes with 8‘ 0“ wide bodies, and these underframes and the bogies and electrical equipment still had many years of life left in them. However some of the converted bodies dated back to before the turn of the century (though most were built between about 1910 and 1925) and these were beginning to show their age.

It was planned to introduce thirty new four coach motor units, disband one hundred and twenty five trailer units, using vehicles from these that were on standard underframes to make up a similar number of three coach units to four coaches, build fifty-five new all-steel trailers to augment the fifty-five contractor built units new in 1925/6, build a further twenty three new units and then one hundred & seventy nine further all-steel trailers to augment the remaining three coach motor units to four coaches. Augmented units would then start to be withdrawn and their bodies scrapped releasing standard underframes for later stages of construction of further new units. The new units would then allow the scrapping of other older vehicles mounted onto non-standard underframes which were not suitable for further use.

The outbreak of the Second World War in September 1939 disrupted these plans somewhat, but the stages were followed roughly as planned and wartime restrictions did allow some flexibility as train service curtailments released some stock as surplus, though this was offset by the loss of some vehicles due to enemy action damage. The abolition of the trailer units also simplified train running operations at many locations and avoided the need for ‘blind shunting’ where trailer units had to be propelled onto standing stock to make-up eight coach trains for the peak periods.

 

New 4 SUB units (4101-on)

The first of the new four coach units was delivered in September 1941 and was known as a 4 SUB and numbered 4101. The war however prevented delivery of any more until 4102 arrived late in 1944 and all of the first thirty planned had been delivered by the end of 1946.

 

1942 and the Augmented SUBs

The first augmented units began to appear in 1942, newly overhauled in a brighter green livery. By this stage as first class accommodation had been withdrawn from the suburban area in October 1941 so the new units were third class only. However all contained some compartments to former first class dimensions; indeed the newly built all‑steel units also contained a ‘Pseudo‑Composite’ coach in case first class was reintroduced after the war. Reinstatement never took place and no augmented 4 SUB ever ran as other than third class only.

 

2 NOL Trailer Sets

To release trailer units to enable them to donate vehicles to the augmented motor units, with non-suitable coaches either being scrapped or used for wartime purposes mostly as ARP and Home Guard hutments, a number of 2 NOL units in the 1847 ‑ 1890 series had their shoegear (and possibly motors) removed and were used temporarily as trailer sets in replacement.

 

First Batch of Augmented Units

The ex LSWR 1915 units 1201 – 1284 (rebuilt between 1934 and 1940) were selected as the first batch to be augmented. Being of three distinct sub-types these units were therefore sub-divided, one type becoming units 4131 ‑ 4171 augmented with a 10-compartment ex LSWR conversion, the second type becoming units 4195 ‑ 4215 augmented with an 11-compartment ex LSWR conversion, the third type becoming units 4216 ‑ 4234 again with an 11-compartment ex LSWR conversion inserted. These arrangements ensured units had a similar seating capacity, and the bodystyle of the additional coach was similar to that of the other three vehicles, though some were flush panelled. The augmentation of all three sub-batches took place side by side steadily from mid 1942 until early 1948. Coaches from trailer units to be used for augmentation were taken to Eastleigh for conversion where buffing gear was altered and jumpers repositioned as necessary. Some were then worked back to Selhurst alongside new all‑steel coaches and inserted into three coach units there.

A small batch of units commenced being augmented in mid 1943 using vehicles taken from war damaged or accident damaged units, all vehicles utilised coming from three coach motor units. Due to the origins of this batch, vehicles converted from all three pre-grouping companies' coaches were used in some mixed formations, most being on standard underframes, though a few were on lengthened AC ones. Eight of these non-standard units were augmented by 1948 with the numbers 4250 ‑ 4257 allocated.

 

New-build Augmentation Trailers

Following the construction of the first batch of ten new 4 SUB units 4101 ‑ 4110 at Eastleigh, a start was then made on producing the first batch of augmentation trailers. This coincided with the changeover at Eastleigh to construction of complete ‘all-steel’ coaches, as 4101 ‑ 4110 had canvas covered wooden roofs like all the previous suburban stock. This alteration took place part way through the building of the first lot of fifty five augmentation trailers, the first forty five having wooden roofs, the last ten being all‑steel. This batch of coaches was used to augment the 1925 contractor built units 1285 ‑ 1310 and 1496 ‑ 1524, augmentation of both batches running in parallel between June 1945 and April 1946, and with the new coaches being allocated in numerical order to the next unit due for revarnishing, this resulted in the new coaches not being allocated in any sort of number order within the batches. As augmented, these units were renumbered 4300 ‑ 4325 (1285 batch) and 4326 ‑ 4354 (1496 batch).

The next stage of the augmentation process involved the construction of a further one hundred and sixteen augmentation trailers at Eastleigh between October 1946 and June 1947; this batch following the construction of all‑new units 4111 ‑ 4130. These were again 10-compartment coaches of all‑steel construction, ordered to H.O. 3351 and to Diagram 2013, and they seated 120 third and weighed 28 tons. They were numbered 10230 ‑ 10345. The resulting 4 SUB units were numbered 4401 ‑ 4516, but due to the varied origins of the three coach motor units used, there were seating capacity and weight differences between groups of them.

Whilst the above batch of augmentation trailers were being delivered, the process of augmenting units using coaches from disbanded trailer units was also continuing, the next batch of units to be commenced late in 1946 being ex LSWR conversions from the 1658 ‑ 1701 batch, these units taking the numbers 4172 ‑ 4194 when augmented with 10-compartment coaches and 4235 ‑ 4250 when augmented with 11-compartment coaches, as they were dealt with. Once again some of the augmentation vehicles were flush panelled, but again the ex LSWR bodystyle matched those of the rest of the unit fairly closely.

The last two units of the second batch (4249 and 4250) reverted to 10-compartment augmentation trailers and the number 4250 was used for the second time as the original unit (one of the hybrid wartime augmentations) had been withdrawn by this stage. This completed the stage of units being made up to four cars using pre‑war trailer coaches, the final stage of the augmentation scheme then utilising a further sixty three new all‑steel 10 compartment coaches.

The final batch of sixty-three augmentation trailers were built at Eastleigh on new Lancing underframes between January and July 1948 and were numbered 10167 ‑ 10229. These had followed the construction of complete new units 4355 ‑ 4377, but due to post war material shortages, many of these units had their motor coaches stored at Micheldever awaiting fitting of electrical equipment, and as a result some of the trailers intended for this batch were used instead to augment pre‑war units.

 

‘Pseudo‑Composite’ Trailers

This batch of units had been constructed before a decision that first class would not be re-introduced on suburban trains and as a result they included a ‘Pseudo‑Composite’ trailer with nine compartments, seven of which were to first class dimensions. Nine of these coaches and fourteen standard 10-compartment trailers intended for 4355 ‑ 4377 were eventually used for augmentation, their place in these units being taken by 23 of the subsequent build of augmentation trailers.

The 9 ‘Pseudo‑Composite’ were allocated to new 4 SUB units with the highest numbers of the augmented units between 4587 and 4614, though no more than nine existed at any one time. The number range of this final batch of augmented three coach units ran from 4517 to 4614 though numbers 4595 ‑ 4600, 4609, 4611 and 4612 were not used and there were never more than sixty three units in existence at any one time, this being accounted for as some of the earlier withdrawals for underframe recovery donated their augmentation trailers to further three coach units.

This batch also included all the units which had their pre-war coach bodies mounted on lengthened AC underframes, and many of these lasted longer in traffic than those on standard underframes as the lengthened frames were now considered unsuitable for further use, and on withdrawal the whole vehicle was scrapped. Throughout the augmentation process, three coach units for augmentation had their intermediate bar couplers (where still so fitted) altered to the three link chain and centre buffer type, though quite a number of units had been fitted with these earlier.

The normal arrangement of couplings after treatment was that both motorcoaches had rubbing plates, the pre-war trailer had a centre buffer at both ends and the augmentation trailer had a rubbing plate at one end and a centre buffer at the other. However, there were some exceptions to this, whilst the buffing arrangements were often later amended as units were reformed.

 

Withdrawal of LSWR Conversions

The above phases of the augmentation programme steadily eliminated the former ‘standard’ three coach motor units from traffic, the last ex LSWR conversions running early in 1949 (unit 1599 augmented January 1949 and unit 1783 augmented February 1949), the final ex LBSC conversions, units 1727/47/68 becoming 4 SUB units in September 1949 and an ex SECR conversion running as the final three coach unit in traffic, 1609 becoming 4 SUB 4588 in October 1949. The last services requiring three coach units, the Caterham /Tattenham Corner lines were altered to 4 SUB operation from 1st March 1949, with 8-car trains replacing 9-car formations.

This huge fleet of 4 SUB units then dominated the suburban system, with all the sub‑batches of units being seen anywhere on the system as there was no formal depot allocation of individual units, units receiving routine running maintenance at any of the three main depots, Selhurst, Slade Green and Durnsford Road, with lesser attention also at Strawberry Hill, Orpington and Gillingham. Main works attention for heavy body repairs continued to take place at both Eastleigh and Lancing and Selhurst Paint Shops dealt with intermediate body overhauls (‘Varnishes’, though this often involved some repainting). Running gear and bogie exchanges combined with overhauls of the electrical equipment took place at both Slade Green and Durnsford Road, whilst Peckham Rye shops dealt with some body defects not sufficient to require a visit to one of the main works.

Units were also often to be seen further afield, particularly during summer weekends and Bank Holidays, when 12-coach trains formed of three units were frequently used as special and relief trains from the London area to the Sussex Coast. Augmented units were mixed indiscriminately with newer all‑steel 4 SUB units throughout the suburban system, but as the 4 EPB units entered service, with the majority on the Eastern Section, the older units were seen mostly on the Central & Western Sections only in their later years. In 1950, before the introduction of any of the 4 EPB type, a total of 496 4 SUB units were required to meet traffic and maintenance requirements.

 

Decline of the Augmented SUBs

As the building programme for the all‑steel 4 SUB units continued, the numbers of augmented former three coach units began to decline as vehicles were withdrawn and many then donated their underframes to new all‑steel coaches under construction at Eastleigh. Withdrawn units were worked to Strawberry Hill for electrical stripping by the English Electric Co. then hauled away, sometimes via a period in store, prior to arrival at Lancing for rebuilding. Mostly the original wooden bodies were demolished at either Longhedge or Lancing up to about 1956, thereafter at Newhaven, and the underframes then taken to Lancing Works for reconditioning. This involved transposing the position of the inner and outer solebars and provision of additional strengthening to increase collision resistance.

As built, units 1401 ‑ 1495 & 1525 ‑ 1534 were mounted on 62’ 0” frames mostly built at Ashford (though 1525 ‑ 1534 had theirs from Lancing to the Ashford specification) and these underframes were 7’ 3” between solebars, whereas the many hundreds of later ones manufactured at Lancing were 6’ 11” between solebars. It is presumed that these 315 ‘Ashford’ frames were altered to standard when they were reconditioned at Lancing prior to the new all-steel bodies being mounted onto them. The refurbished frames were then hauled to Eastleigh prior to re-use, often after a period of storage.

 

Last of the 4 SUB builds and into the BR design 4 EPBs

Construction of 4 SUB units ceased in November 1951 but the rebuilding process continued at the same pace with the first of the 4 EPB units also appearing that month. New units were outshopped at the rate of about four or five per month from late in 1948 until the final ‘SR’ pattern 4 EPB was turned out in March 1957 by which time two hundred and twenty one 4 SUB and two hundred & thirteen 4 EPB units had been produced. This influx of new stock continued to displace the augmented units (except the 4301 ‑ 4354 batches) and virtually all had been withdrawn by 1956, all the all‑steel augmentation trailers by now having been incorporated into new all-steel units.

As rebuilding progressed, new all steel units were mostly fitted with new EE507 ‘lightweight’ motors, displacing older EE 339 ones, these then being used to replace the earlier Westinghouse 339 ones in ex LSWR units in the 1201 ‑ 1284 number series. Then the DK 77 motors in ex SECR conversions were also replaced by the EE 339 types. This was done as the use of EE 507 motors required alterations to motorcoaches, principally fitting of air-ducting and altered motor junction boxes along with underslung contactor gear and it was not felt economic to alter the older motorcoaches, especially as the new all-steel ones were designed to accept the EE 507 type.

Swapping motorbogies and thereby changing units from the ‘Eastern’ to the ‘Central’ type also involved structural alterations to the vehicles as centre castings, friction blocks and brake pull rods needed modifications, so this was kept to a minimum, whilst the motorbogies themselves required modifications where a different motor type was to be installed. However, to speed-up replacement of the last DK 77 motors still in use, the contractor built batch of units 4326 ‑ 4354 had their ‘Eastern’ motorbogies removed and altered for EE 507 motors, these being replaced by ‘Central’ ones fitted with EE 339 motors. The EE 507 powered ‘Eastern’ motorbogies were then used for 4 EPB units 5001 ‑ 5053.

 

BR-design 2 EPBs

The first of the ‘BR’ pattern 2 EPB units began to enter traffic during September 1954 and seventy eight units were authorised, most of these to enable the ‘ten car scheme’ to be implemented on the Eastern Section, though a number displaced the 2 SL and 2 WIM units for withdrawal, this being a priority owing to complaints by the motormen regarding high cab temperatures in the motorcoaches of these sets.

 

The Last Augmented SUBs

By the start of 1957, with the end of 4 EPB production approaching, attention then turned to the 2 NOL fleet, those working suburban services on the Waterloo – Windsor /Weybridge lines then being steadily withdrawn, again for underframe recovery to enable construction of the ‘SR’ pattern 2 HAP units, this stock being intended as part of the first phase of the Kent Coast electrification scheme. Later stages of this programme saw those 2 NOL units working on the Sussex Coastal lines also withdrawn and their underframes were used for the final batch of units built to the ‘SR’ pattern, a batch of thirty four 2 EPB units intended to replace the original 2 NOL units on the Windsor/Weybridge service, these units being delivered between October and December 1959. This resulted in a final phase of augmented units being formed as eighteen units were made up during 1956 and early 1957 to cover this shortfall on the Windsor service pending the arrival of the 2 EPB units.

This final batch of augmented units were numbered 4501 ‑ 4518, re-using numbers vacated by already withdrawn stock, and all were formed of four pre-war vehicles, virtually all of ex LBSC body origin and mounted onto lengthened former ‘AC’ stock underframes which were not deemed suitable for further use. As third class had been redesignated as second from 3rd June 1956, this batch had vehicles classified as MBS and TS from their formation. As these units were only a stopgap they had quite short lives, all being withdrawn during 1959 for scrapping as the last 2 EPB units were delivered. They did however work over most of the suburban network, though less so on the Eastern Section which was by this time a virtual EPB monopoly.

 

The Last Pre-War SUB Units

Following the withdrawal of the 4501 ‑ 4518 batch in 1959, the only surviving pre-war 4 SUB units in traffic were the survivors of the 4301 ‑ 4354 batches, these having been formed of the contractor built 1925 stock and therefore had the most recent wooden framed bodies. These units also incorporated the non‑standard augmentation trailers with the wooden roofs which were unsuitable for further use in all-steel units. A further batch of fifty six BR type 4 EPB units were therefore ordered to replace them, and units 5301 ‑ 5356 were delivered between January 1960 and January 1962, resulting in the last of the pre‑war Southern Railway suburban stock being withdrawn from service in January 1962. They did however release their ‘Central’ motorbogies, which were modified for EE 507 motors and used to replace the ‘Eastern’ type under 4 EPB units 5001 ‑ 5053, this being done as the brake rigging was simpler on the ‘Central’ type of bogie, so easing maintenance requirements.

Back to Top

 


Liveries

Information on livery changes from SR to BR(S) is currently being sought. None of the augmented SUB units survived long enough to receive yellow warning panels or air-horns (units 4342 and 4358 were fitted with experimental air horns early in 1952).

With the exception of 4235, all the batch 4235-4250 were augmented following Nationalisation and appeared in early British Railways style livery; some with an ‘S’ prefix to the unit number.

Back to Top

 

 

Units 4131 ‑ 4171

The first augmented units were planned to be numbered from 4131 upwards leaving the first thirty numbers of this series vacant for the new 4 SUB units being built at Eastleigh, and the first batch of units chosen for augmentation were the original ex LSWR units of the 1201 ‑ 1284 batch dating from 1915 though extensively rebuilt between 1934 and 1940 on standard 62' 0" underframes. The additional coaches used to make‑up these units to four coaches were taken from various trailer set batches, but all had similar LSWR style bodywork to the coaches of the motor units.

The motor units selected for this batch were all from the units formed with an all-compartment Trailer Composite (TC) and one Motor Brake Third (MBT) and one Motor Brake Composite (MBC), those units which included one of the small former first class saloons in their trailers and having two MBTs being used for two further series of similar units numbered upwards from 4195 and 4216. As units were now all third class the coaches from the motor units were by now designated as MBT and TT. The additional trailer coach was an ex LSWR 10 compartment TT of quite recent conversion to electric operation, all being converted for use in trailer units between 1934 and 1937. Some of these had flush panelled bodywork, contrasting with the panel beading of some of the motor unit coaches.

Augmented units were delivered in numerical order, the seemingly random order of selection from the original units was caused by units being augmented once they were due for a body overhaul or revarnishing. Owing to wartime constraints, there was a pause in augmentations after unit 4149 completed in the autumn of 1943, conversions recommencing with 4150 in May 1944. These units retained the distinctive ‘wedge end’ cab design of the LSWR units, and Westinghouse 339 motors.

These units were formed as follows:

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 41 tons 16cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 100

Weight 27 tons

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 100 (five compartments at one end downgraded firsts)

Weight 28 tons 12cwt.

 

MBT

7 compartments

Seated 70 (two compartments at non-driving end downgraded firsts)

Weight 41 tons

 

Overall these units were 257 5" long, weighed 138 tons 18cwt and seated 350 third. The weight of the units varied slightly as the later ones rebuilt after 1937 in the 1934 ‑ 1940 programme had strengthened underframes which weighed about 1 ton more, raising the overall weight by about 3 tons. Twelve of these units were included in this batch.

The 100 seat trailer was modified prior to inclusion in the units as the side buffers at the former outer end had to be replaced with a central buffer to couple to the motorcoach with a three link chain, revising the overall length to 64' 2¾". Their Diagram Numbers were altered to reflect this, but they had varied between 731 and 732 before conversion and continued to do so after, those of 731 becoming 741, those of 732 becoming 740. When running as 3 coach motor units, the first class sections of the trailer and former motor brake composite were marshalled together, this (with one exception) remained the case with these units and the additional coach was inserted between the trailer and the motor brake third.

The first of these units entered service on the Western Section and they were used on the Windsor lines early on, displacing 2 NOL units for use elsewhere (often as trailer units). Conversions continued at a steady rate until the last was done in late 1946, the units by then being used anywhere in the suburban system. All units survived to be taken into BR ownership in 1948, some gaining a small ‘s’ prefix to their unit numbers for a while, and the Westinghouse 339 motors, by now outdated, were steadily replaced by EE 339 ones from early 1950, these recovered from other units being rebuilt, and the whole batch were withdrawn for scrapping between 1953 and 1956, all being scrapped at either Longhedge or Lancing shortly after their withdrawal date. A large number of underframes were then used in the 4 EPB construction programme.

Unit formations were as follows, with date of formation below the unit number, and the number of the vehicles' previous unit being shown in brackets below, flush panelled vehicles are marked with ‘*’ after the coach number. Units with the three ex motor unit coaches mounted onto the heavier underframes are marked with a ‘+’ after the unit number.

 

Unit

MBT (8-comp.)

TT (10-comp.)

TT (10-comp.)

MBT (7-comp.)

Withdrawn

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4131+
Apr-42

8006*
(1204)

10411*
(989)

9373*
(1204)

8752*
(1204)

10-Dec-55

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4132
Apr-42

8059
(1239)

9172
(1197)

9390
(1239)

8769
(1239)

26-Feb-55

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4133
Oct-42

8048
(1232)

9174
(1198)
91711

9387
(1232)
97192

8766
(1232)

26-May-56

4134+
Oct-42

8071*
(1247)

10405*
(1108)
97283

9394*
(1247)
94724

8773*
(1247)

2-Jun-56

4135
Oct-42

8060
(1240)

9204
(1120)

9391
(1240)

8770
(1240)

17-Dec-55

4136
Oct-42

8120
(1280)

9173
(1116)

9411
(1280)

8790
(1280)

15-May-54

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4137
Nov-42

8090
(1260)

9183
(1050)

9401
(1260)

8780
(1260)

27-Nov-54

4138+
Nov-42

8053*
(1235)

9181
(1047)

9388*
(1235)

8767*
(1235)

23-Apr-54

4139
Nov-42

8107
(1271)

9179
(1046)

9406
(1271)

8785
(1271)

13-Feb-54

4140
Oct-42

8047
(1231)

9187
(1097)

9386
(1231)

8765
(1231)

26-Jun-54

4141
Jan-43

8041
(1227)

9170
(1115)

9384
(1227)

8763
(1227)

19-Feb-55

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4142+
Feb-43

8108*
(1272)

9186
(1113)

9407*
(1272)

8786*
(1272)

16-Jun-56

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4143
Feb-43

8083
(1255)

10407*
(1099)

9398
(1255)

8777
(1255)

25-Sep-54

4144
Mar-43

8096
(1264)

10410*
(991)

9403
(1264)

8782
(1264)

2-Oct-54

4145
Feb-43

8089
(1259)

9825*
(1000)

9400
(1259)

8791
(1259)

11-Dec-54

4146+
Apr-43

8018*
(1212)

10414*
(1086)

9377*
(1212)

8756*
(1212)

8-May-54

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4147
Apr-43

8072
(1248)

9180
(1048)

9395
(1248)

8774
(1248)
8771

20-Nov-54

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4148
Sep-43

8119
(1279)

9199
(1073)

9410
(1279)

8789
(1279)

12-Mar-55

4149+
Sep-43

8113*
(1275)

10401*
(1093)

9408*
(1275)

8787*
(1275)
81545
8787*

12-Nov-55

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4150
May-44

8065
(1243)

10413*
(992)

9392
(1243)

8774
(4147)

22-Oct-55

4151
c.Jun-44

8078
(1252)

9194
(1059)

9397
(1252)

8776
(1252)

5-Mar-55

4152
Oct-44

8012
(1208)

10416*
(1104)

9375
(1208)

8754
(1208)

6-Aug-55

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4153
Oct-44

8023
(1215)

9827*
(1081)

9378
(1215)

8757
(1215)

11-Sep-54

4154
Oct-44

8017
(1211)

10418*
(1061)

9376
(1211)
93446

8755
(1211)

26-Sep-53

Diag. No.

671

741

769

698

 

4155
Dec-44

82137
(1692)

9208
(1103)

9404
(1267)

8783
(1267)

16-Jan-54

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4156+
Feb-45

8030*
(1220)

10402*
(994)

9381*
(1220)

8760*
(1220)

18=jun-55

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4157
c.Mar-45

8084
(1256)

9168
(1117)

9399
(1256)

8778
(1256)

17-Jul-54

4158+
(Jul-45)

8024*
(1216)

10412*
(1082)

9379*
(1216)

8758*
(1216)

24-Sep-55

4159+
Aug-45

8054*
(1236)

9169
(1195

9389*
(1236))

8768*
(1236)

3-Dec-55

4160
Nov-45

8011
(1207)

9195
(1040)

9374
(1207)

8753
(1207)
81788
8753

23-Jul-55

4161+
Nov-45

8114*
(1276)

9201
(1072)

9409*
(1276)

8788*
(1276)
88089

26-Dec-53

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4162
Feb-46

8029
(1219)

10417*
(990)

9380
(1219)

8759
(1219)

5-Nov-55

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4163
Jan-46

8095
(1263)

10415*
(996)

9402
(1263)

8781
(1263)

4-May-54

4164+
Jan-46

8036*
(1224)
887210

9300
(999)

9383*
(1224)

8762*
(1224)
870611

20-Aug-55

4165
c.Apr-46

8042
(1228)

9826*
(1200)

9385
(1228)

8764
(1228)

21-Jan-55

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4166
c.Apr-46

8077
(1251)

9190
(1071)

9396
(1251)

8775
(1251)

31-Dec-55

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4167
Apr-46

8066
(1244)

9205
(1199)

9393
(1244)

8772
(1244)

28-Aug-54

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4168
Sep-46

8126
(1284)

9829*
(1095)

9413
(1284)

8792
(1284)

5-Feb-55

Diag. No.

685

741

769

698

 

4169
Sep-46

8005
(1203)
804612

9207
(1067)

9372
(1203)

8751
(1203)

3-Sep-55

Diag. No.

685

740

769

698

 

4170+
Dec-46

8055*
(1223)

9828*
(1084)

9382*
(1223)

8761*
(1223)

14-Jan-56

Diag. No.

685

769

741

698

 

4171
Dec-46

8102
(1268)

9405
(1268)

10406*
(997)

8784
(1268)

21-May-55

Notes

1 = 10-Compt. ex LBSC conversion. Diagram 761.

2 = 10-Compt. ex LBSC conversion. Diagram 761.

3 = 10-Compt. ex LBSC conversion. Diagram 773.

4 = 10-Compt. ex LBSC conversion. Diagram 761.

5 = 1925 ‘Guildford /Dorking’ 7-Compt. MBT. Diagram 661.

6 = 10-Compt. ex LSWR conversion. Diagram 760.

7 = Ex LSWR 1928 conversion with flat cab end.

8 = 1925 ‘Guildford/Dorking’ MBT. Diagram 661.

9 = Ex LSWR 1928 conversion with flat cab end. Diagram 691.

10 = 7-Compt. ex LBSC conversion. Diagram 693.

11 = 8-Compt. ex LBSC conversion. Diagram 675.

12 = 7½-Compt. MBT. Diagram 676.

 

 

Individual Unit Notes
4131 - 4171

4131

Unit withdrawn 10‑Dec-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 7‑Jan-56. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8006 for 14466, 10411 for 15421 (both 5233) Sep-56, 8752 for 14469 (5235) Sep-56 and 9373 for 15432 (5244) Nov-56.

4132

When formed all coaches fully panelled, but part of unit flush‑panelled later, possibly during repairs to blast damage sustained at Chertsey 24‑Sep-44.

Unit withdrawn 26‑Feb-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 26‑Mar-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8059 for 14506 (5253) Feb-57, 8769 for 14468 (5234) Sep-56, 9172 for 15327 (5199) Dec-55 and 9390 for 15386 (5208) Feb-56.

4133

Both trailers 9174 and 9387 exchanged with 9717 and 9719 (date and reason unknown) (both ex 4566), these vehicles both being 10 compartment ex LBSC conversions on lengthened AC frames, each seating 100, four compartments at one end being to first class dimensions. These vehicles weighed 25 tons 7cwt so overall unit weight was now reduced to 134 tons and seating capacity remained 350.

When unit withdrawn 26‑May-56, 9719 formed into 4506(2) from Sep-56 and 9717 condemned 1‑Sep-56 and scrapped (probably at Newhaven?). Bodywork of both MBTs also broken up (where?) and their underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8048 for 14484 (5242) Nov-56 and 8766 for 14479 (5240) Oct-56.

4134

TT 9394 withdrawn 11‑Nov-52 at Eastleigh (damaged?) and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge 25‑Sep-54, the underframe being used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicle 15350 (5172) Jun-55. Unit reformed c.May-53 and TT 10405 to unit 4411. Replaced by TTs 9472 and 9728 (both ex disbanded 4252), these vehicles both being 10 compartment ex LBSC conversions on lengthened AC underframes, each seating 100, four compartments at one end being to first class dimensions. These vehicles weighed 25 tons 7cwt so overall unit weight now reduced to 134 tons and seating capacity remained at 350.

When unit withdrawn 2‑Jun-56, 9472 formed into unit 4508(2) from Oct-56 and 9728 formed into unit 4507(2) also from Oct-56. Bodywork of both MBTs broken‑up and their underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8071 for 14478 and 8773 for 14477 (both 5239) Oct-56.

4135

Unit withdrawn 17‑Dec-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 14‑Jan-56. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8060 for 14433 and 9391 for 15405 (both 5217) Apr-56, 8770 for 14432 (5216) Apr-56 and 9204 for 15439 (5251) Jan-57.

4136

Unit withdrawn 15‑May-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge? by 12‑Jun-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8120 for 14296 (5148) Dec-54, 8790 for 14282 (5141) Nov-54, 9173 for 15266 (5138) Oct-54 and 9411 for 15268 (5140) Nov-54.

4137

Unit withdrawn 27‑Nov-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 25‑Dec-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8090 for 14353 (5177) Aug-55, 8780 for 14337, 9183 for 15297 and 9401 for 15347 (all 5169) May-55.

4138

Unit withdrawn 23‑Apr-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 21‑May-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8053 for 14363 (5182) Sep-55, 8767 for 14362 (5181) Sep-55, 9181 for 15311 and 9388 for 15361 (both 5183) Oct-55.

4139

Unit withdrawn 13‑Feb-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge? by 27‑Mar-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8107 for 14423 (5212) Mar-56, 8785 for 14421 (5211) Mar-56, 9179 for 15252 (5124) Jun-54 and 9406 for 15253 (5125) Jul-54.

4140

Unit withdrawn 26‑Jun-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge? by 24‑Jul-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8047 for 14283 and 8765 for 14284 (both 5142) Nov-54, 9187 for 15218 (5140) Nov-54 and 9386 for 15271 (5143) Nov-54.

4141

Unit withdrawn 19‑Feb-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 19‑Mar-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8041 for 14344 (5172) Jun-55, 8763 for 14511 (5256) Feb-57, 9170 for 15301 (5173) Jul-55 and 9384 for 15360 (5182) Sep-55.

4142

MBT 8108 damaged by enemy action (date and location unknown) and proposed for break‑up, but then reinstated and repaired.

Unit was last wedge-ended cab unit to run and withdrawn 16‑Jun-56 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8108 for 14517 (5259) Mar-57, 8786 for 14514 (5257) Mar-57, 9186 for 15448 (5260) Mar-57 and 9407 for 15444 (5256) Feb-57.

4143

Unit withdrawn 25‑Sep-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 23‑Oct-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8083 for 14382 (5191) Nov-55, 8777 for 14379 (5190) Nov-55, 9398 for 15374 (5196) Dec-55 and 10407 for 15320 (5192) Nov-55.

4144

Unit withdrawn 2‑Oct-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 30‑Oct-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8096 for 14401 (5201) Jan-56, 8782 for 14398 (5199) Dec-55, 9403 for 15382 (5204) Jan-56 and 10410 for 15331 (5203) Jan-56.

4145

Unit withdrawn 11‑Dec-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 8‑Jan-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8089 for 14327 and 8791 for 14328 (both 5164) Apr-55, 9400 for 15341 and 9825 for 15291 (both 5163) Apr-55.

4146

Unit withdrawn 8‑May-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge? by 5‑Jun-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8018 for 14280 (5140) Nov-54, 8756 for 14291 (5146) Dec-54, 9377 for 15343 (5165) May-55 and 10414 for 15216 (5138) Oct-54.

4147

Unit reformed May-44 (enemy action damage?), MBT 8774 to ‘new’ 4150, replaced by 8771 (ex 1243).

Unit withdrawn 20‑Nov-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 18‑Dec-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8072 for 14323 (5162) Apr-55, 8771 for 14319 (5160) Mar-55, 9180 for 15287 and 9395 for 15337 (both 5159) Mar-55.

4148

Unit withdrawn 12‑Mar-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 9‑Apr-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8119 for 14351, 8789 for 14352, 9199 for 15304 and 9410 for 15354 (all 5176) Aug-55.

4149

MBT 8787 damaged (where?) c.Jul-46 and temporarily replaced by 8154 (ex 4313) until Jun-47, a similar 1925 ‘Guildford/Dorking’ 7 compartment MBT with flush panelling. Unit shorter than standard for duration of this change at 252' 2½" and weighing 136 tons 14cwt which reverted during 1947.

Unit withdrawn 12‑Nov-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 10‑Dec-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8113 for 14505 (5253) Feb-57, 8787 for 14482 and 10401 for 15429 (both 5241) Oct-56, 9408 for 15416 (5228) Jul-56.

4150

Unit withdrawn 22‑Oct-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 19‑Nov-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8065 for 14411 and 8774 for 14412 (both 5206) Feb-56, 9392 for 15389 (5211) Mar-56 and 10413 for 15402 (5214) Mar-56.

4151

Unit withdrawn 5‑Mar-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 26‑Mar-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8078 for 14347, 8776 for 14348, 9194 for 15302 and 9397 for 15352 (all 5174) Aug-55.

4152

Unit withdrawn 6‑Aug-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 27‑Aug-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8012 for 14386 (5193) Nov-55, 8754 for 14387 (5194) Nov-55, 9375 for 15378 (5200) Dec-55 and 10416 for 15323 (5195) Dec-55.

4153

MBT 8023 withdrawn 24‑Mar-54 but later reinstated and to 4590 from Sep-54. (remainder of unit stored out of use?) and withdrawn 11‑Sep-54 and bodywork of remaining three coaches broken‑up at Longhedge by 9‑Oct-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8757 for 14307 (5154) Feb-55, 9378 for 15280 (5152) Jan-55 and 9827 for 15231 (5153) Jan-55.

4154

TT 9376 exchanged with 10 compartment ex LSWR conversion TT 9344 (ex 4235) (date unknown), this coach having four compartments to first class dimensions.

Unit withdrawn 26‑Sep-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 17‑Oct-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8017 for 14509 (5255) Feb-57, 8755 for 14493 (5247) Dec-56, 9344 for 15249 (5121) Jun-54 and 10418 for 15198 (5120) May-54.

4155

Unit augmented Dec-44 from damaged coaches of units 1267 and 1692 which had been recently reformed c.Aug-44 with two ‘1915’ ex LSWR coaches from 1267 following war damage. MBT 8213 therefore had a flat style cab end and unit weighed 136 tons 16cwt.

Unit withdrawn 16‑Jan-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 13‑Feb-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8213 for 15442 (5254) Feb-57, an example of a former MBT frame being used under a trailer coach, 8783 for 14487 (5244) Nov-56, 9208 for 15200 (5122) Jun-54 and 9404 for 15251 (5123) Jun-54.

4156

Unit withdrawn 18‑Jun-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 9-Jul-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8030 for 14372 (5186) Oct-55, 8760 for 14376 and 10402 for 15316 (both 5188) Nov-55 and 9381 for 15367 (5189) Nov-55.

4157

Unit withdrawn 17‑Jul-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge? by 14‑Aug-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8084 for 14309 (5155) Feb-55, 8778 for 14294 (5147) Dec-54, 9168 for 15224 and 9399 for 15274 (both 5146) Dec-54.

4158

Unit withdrawn 24‑Sep-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 22‑Oct-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8024 for 14403 and 8758 for 14404 (both 5202) Jan-56, 9379 for 15399 (5211) Mar-56 and 10412 for 15333 (5205) Jan-56.

4159

Unit withdrawn 3‑Dec-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 31‑Dec-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8054 for 14434 (5217) Apr-56, 8768 for 14429 and 9389 for 15393 (both 5215) Apr-56 and 9169 for 15404 (5216) Apr-56.

4160

MBT 8753 temporarily replaced by 8178 (ex 4325) from c.Sep-50 until cFeb-51 (reason unknown). This coach a similar 7 compartment coach with ‘wedge end’ cab but mounted on 56' 11" underframe, reducing overall unit length to 252' 2½" and weight to 136 tons 14cwt for duration of change.

Unit withdrawn 23‑Jul-55 and bodywork of all coaches broken‑up at Longhedge by 20‑Aug-55 and their underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8011 for 14385 (5193) Nov-55, 8753 for 14388 (5194) Nov-55, 9195 for 15324 (5196) Dec-55 and 9374 for 15375 (5197) Dec-55.

4161

Unit damaged in collision at Strood 10‑Oct-47 and MBT 8788 withdrawn and bodywork broken-up on site and underframe used in construction of new 4 SUB vehicle 12711 (4690) Sep-50. Replaced from Nov-47 by 8808 (ex disbanded 1673), a similar 8 compartment ex LSWR conversion but with flat style cab end, and unit now weighed 137 tons 2cwt.

Unit withdrawn 26‑Dec-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 16‑Jan-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8114 for 14435 (5218) Apr-56, 8808 for 14242 (5121) Jun-54, 9201 for 15210 (5132) Sep-54 and 9409 for 15248 (5120) May-54.

4162

Unit withdrawn 5‑Nov-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 3‑Dec-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8029 for 14420 (5210) Mar-56, 8759 for 14416 (5208) Feb-56, 9380 for 15401 (5213) Mar-56 and 10417 for 15403 (5215) Apr-56.

4163

Unit withdrawn 4‑Sep-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 2‑Oct-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8095 for 14299 (5150) Jan-55, 8781 for 14301 (5151) Jan-55, 9402 for 15276 (5148) Dec-54 and 10415 for 15227 (5149) Jan-55.

4164

Unit disbanded 20‑Aug-55 and both MBTs 8036 and 8762 stored at Hassocks until formed into unit 4537 from Oct-55. Both trailers 9300 and 9383 withdrawn and formed between MBTs 8872 and 8706 (ex 4537) though unit not used in this formation. All four coaches had bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 17‑Sep-55 along with the underframes of the MBTs, and the trailer underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 9300 for 15326 (5198) Dec-55 and 9383 for 15377 (5199) Dec-55.

4165

Unit withdrawn 22‑Jan-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 19‑Feb-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8042 for 14341, 9385 for 15349 and 9826 for 15299 (all 5171) Jun-55, 8764 for 14346 (5173) Jul-55.

4166

Unit withdrawn 31‑Dec-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge shortly afterwards. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8077 for 14437 and 9396 for 15407 (both 5219) May-56, 8775 for 14439 (5220) May-56 and 9190 for 15441 (5253) Feb-57.

4167

Unit withdrawn 28‑Aug-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 25‑Sep-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8066 for 14304 (5152) Feb-55, 8772 for 14306 (5153) Feb-55, 9205 for 15229 and 9393 for 15279 (both 5151) Jan-55.

4168

Unit damaged in collision with 4332 at Woolwich Arsenal 18‑Nov-48 but repaired. Unit withdrawn 5‑Feb-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 5‑Mar-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8126 for 14349, 9413 for 15353 and 9829 for 15303 (all 5175) Aug-55, 8792 for 14342 (5171) Jun-55.

4169

MBT 8005 exchanged with damaged 7½ compartment 8046 (ex 4228) Nov-47 and following repairs unit now seated 345 and weighed 139 tons 2cwt. MBT 8046 had the larger buffers so unit had these at one end only. Unit withdrawn 3‑Sep-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 24‑Sep-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8046 for 14394 and 9207 for 15325 (both 5197) Dec-55, 8751 for 14391 (5196) Dec-55 and 9372 for 15376 (5198) Dec-55.

4170

Unit withdrawn 14‑Jan-56 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 11‑Feb-56. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8035 for 14443 (5222) Jun-56, 8761 for 14442 and 9382 for 15409 (both 5221) May-56 and 9828 for 15446 (5258) Mar-57.

4171

When formed, unit odd one out in whole batch with augmentation coach placed between the former first class compartments of the TT and MBT.

Unit withdrawn 21‑May-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 2‑Jul-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8102 for 14366 and 8784 for 14365 (both 5183) Oct-55, 9405 for 15364 (5186) Oct-55 and 10406 for 15362 (5184) Oct-55.

 

Back to Top

 

               

 


Units 4172 ‑ 4194

The motor units taken for this batch of augmentations came from the 1658 ‑ 1701 series, those being augmented with 10 compartment trailers becoming units 4172 ‑ 4194, whilst others which gained 11-compartment trailers were numbered in a further series from 4235 ‑ 4250. One odd unit, 1790 from a later batch was also included in the batch, becoming 4190, this unit having a non-standard seating capacity and weight.

These units differed most obviously from the 4131 ‑ 4171 and 4195 ‑ 4234 batches of units by having the much flatter style cab end, the motor units used in these conversions, though converted from the same batches of LSWR bogie block coaches as the above units, having the standard ‘SR’ cab design as conversion did not take place until 1927/8.

The vehicles used for augmentation were again taken from disbanded trailer units, being recent conversions to electric operation between 1934 and 1937 and all having 10 third-class compartments seating 100 and weighing 27 tons. They were similarly modified to those used in the previous batches with the side buffers at what had been the unit end being replaced by a centre buffer and the jumper connections moved to roof level. This resulted in the alteration of their diagram numbers from either 731 or 732 to 741 and 740 respectively on conversion. Similarly, three coach motor units being augmented which still retained intermediate bar couplers (some had been altered earlier) had these changed to the centre buffer and three link chain arrangement.

The motor units used in these conversions (with one exception) consisted of an 8-compartment MBT seating 80 and weighing 39 tons 14cwt, a 10-compartment TT seating 100 (in five third and five former firsts now downgraded) and weighing 27 tons 12cwt, and a former MBC now downgraded to MBT with 7-compartments (two former firsts downgraded) seating 70 and weighing 39 tons 14cwt. This gave overall unit totals of 134 tons and 350 seats with an overall length of 257' 5".

However, unit 4190 was converted from 3 coach unit 1790 of a later batch, this unit having a 7½ compartment MBT seating 75, a 9-compartment TT seating 90 and an 8 compartment MBT seating 80 and weighing 41 tons. This unit therefore seated 345 and weighed 136 tons. The augmentation trailer was inserted into these units between the original MBT and the TT keeping the former first class compartments together, (with one exception), and once again some of the augmentation vehicles were flush panelled below the waistline. The seating in the downgraded first class compartments was now regarded as seating five‑aside and the armrests were sewn‑up on augmentation during the revarnishing of the units at Selhurst.

Units were not augmented in any sort of number order, being done as they became due for varnishing, but the newly formed 4 SUB was numbered upwards from 4172. The first was completed late in 1946 and the last was done by mid‑1949, some therefore gaining Southern Railway livery whilst later ones were outshopped in early British Railways style. Withdrawals began in 1953 and most had gone by 1954 though a few survived until 1956, all vehicle bodies being broken‑up at either Longhedge or Lancing shortly after withdrawal. Virtually all underframes were reused in new 4 EPB vehicles.

Unit formations were as follows, with the date of formation below the unit number and the number of the vehicles' previous unit being shown in brackets below, flush panelled vehicles ex trailer units are marked with ‘*’ after the coach number, whilst those with Diagram No. 740 are marked with #.

 

Unit

MBT
(8-comp.)

TT
(10-comp.)

TT
(10-comp.)

MBT
(7-comp.)

Withdrawn

Diag. No.

671

741

759

691

 

4172
c.Dec-46

8179
(1658)

9203
(1119)

9307
(1658)

8793
(1658)

28-Nov-53

4173
May-47

8192
(1671)

9191
(1070)

9320
(1671)

8806
(1671)

14-Nov-53

Diag. No.

671

740

759

691

 

4174
May-47

8182
(1661)

9171
(1196)

9310
(1661)

8796
(1661)

28-Nov-53

Diag. No.

671

741

759

691

 

4175
Jun-47

8203
(1682)

9196
(1096)

9331
(1682)

8817
(1682)

10-Oct-53

4176
Aug-47

8205
(1684)

929813
(1098)

9333
(1684)

8819
(1684)

28-Jan-56

Diag. No.

671

740

759

691

 

4177
Aug-47

8183
(1662)

9175
(1087)

9311
(1662)

8797
(1662)
984514

18-Jul-53

4178
Aug-47

8197
(1676)

9176
(1043)

9325
(1676)

8811
(1676)

13-Nov-54

4179
Nov-47

8198
(1677)

10409*
(995)

9326
(1677)

8812
(1677)

27-Jul-53

Diag. No.

671

741

759

691

 

4180
Nov-47

8185
(1664)

9189
(1092)

9313
(1664)

8799
(1664)

5-Dec-53

Diag. No.

671

740

759

691

 

4181
Nov-47

8186
(1665)

9193
(1041)

9314
(1665)

880
(1665)

2-Apr-55

4182
Dec-47

8201
(1680)

9178
(1045)

9329
(1680)

8815
(1680)

29-May-54

4183
Dec-47

8196
(1675)

9177
(1044)

9324
(1675)

8810
(1675)

1-Aug-53

Diag. No.

671

741

759

691

 

4184
Dec-47

8191
(1670)

9185
(1112)

9319
(1670)

8805
(1670)

7-Jun-52

Diag. No.

671

740

759

691

 

4185
(Feb-48)

8184
(1663)

9202
(1118)

9312
(1663)

8798
(1663)
888415

19-Sep-53

4186
Jun-48

8204
(1683)

9188
(1064)

9332
(1683)

8818
(1663)

10-Oct-53

4187
Jun-48

8193
(1672)

9182
(1049)

9321
(1672)

8807
(1682)

18-Dec-54

4188
Oct-48

8189
(1668)

10404*
(1090)

9317
(1668)

8803
(1668)

13-Mar-54

4189
Oct-48

8195
(1674)

9184
(1111)

9323
(1674)

8809
(1674)

5-Sep-53

 

 

 

(9-comp.)

(7½-comp.)

 

Diag. No.

683

743

765

687

 

4190
Nov-48

8573
(1790)

9078
(1078)

9659
(1790)

8572
(1790)

21-Jan-56

 

 

 

(10-comp.)

(7-comp.)

 

Diag. No.

671

759

741

691

 

4191
Dec-48

8206
(1685)

9334
(1685)

10403*
(993)

8820
(1685)

6-May-53

Diag. No.

671

741

759

691

 

4192
Jan-49

8187
(1666)

10408*
(1051)

9315
(1666)

8801
(1666)

23-Mar-53

Diag. No.

671

740

759

691

 

4193
Jan-49

8181
(1660)

9206
(1068)

9309
(1660)

8795
(1660)

29-Aug-53

4194
Jun-49

8180
(1659)

9192
(1042)

9308
(1659)

8794
(1659)

31-Oct-53

Notes:

13 = TT Diagram 743 (detail differences unknown).

14 = 7½-compt. MBT. Diagram 687.

15 = 7-compt. MBT. Diagram 694.

 

 

Individual Unit Notes
4172 - 4194

4172

Unit withdrawn 28‑Nov-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 15‑Dec-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8179 for 14224 and 8793 for 14223 (both 5112) Apr-54, 9203 for 15191 and 9307 for 15241 (both 5113) Apr-54.

4173

Unit withdrawn 14‑Nov-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 5‑Dec-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8192 for 14221, 9191 for 15329 and 9320 for 15189 (all 5111) May-54, 8806 for 14220 (5110) May-54.

4174

Unit withdrawn 28‑Nov-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 26‑Dec-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8182 for 14230 (5115) Apr-54, 8796 for 14227, 9171 for 15192 and 9310 for 15242 (all 5114) Apr-54.

4175

Unit withdrawn 10‑Oct-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 31‑Oct-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8203 for 14231 (5116) Apr-54, 8817 for 14216 (5108) May-54, 9196 for 15188 and 9331 for 15238 (both 5110) May-54.

4176

Augmentation TT 9298 had non‑standard Diagram No. 743 (reason unknown). Unit withdrawn 28‑Jan-56 and bodywork, also underframe of TT 9298 broken‑up at Longhedge by 3‑May-56. Remaining three underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8205 for 14444 (5222) Jun-56, 8819 for 14446 and 9333 for 15411 (both 5223) Jun-56.

4177

MBT 8797 damaged (where?) c.May-52 and withdrawn and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? 30‑May-53 and underframe used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicle 14211 (5106) Feb-54. Replaced by 9845 (ex 4418), a 7½ compartment vehicle with similar bodystyle seating 75, overall unit capacity now being 355 and weight 135 tons 12cwt. Unit withdrawn 18‑Jul-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 8‑Aug-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8183 for 14097 (5049) Jan-54, 9175 for 15173 (5048) Dec-53, 9311 for 15155 (5102) Dec-53 and 9845 for 14277 (5139) Oct-54.

4178

Unit withdrawn 13‑Nov-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 11‑Dec-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8197 for 14322, 9176 for 15289 and 9325 for 15339 (all 5161) May-55, 8811 for 14325 (5163) Apr-55.

4179

Unit withdrawn 25‑Jul-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 15‑Aug-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8198 for 15436 (5248) Dec-56, an example of a former motorcoach underframe being used under a trailer coach, 8812 for 14098 and 10409 for 15174 (both 5049) Jan-54 and 9326 for 15156 (5103) Jan-54.

4180

Unit withdrawn 5‑Dec-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 9‑Jan-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8185 for 14233 and 8799 for 14324 (both 5117) May-54, 9189 for 15193 (5115) Apr-54 and 9313 for 15244 (5116) Apr-54.

4181

Unit withdrawn 2‑Apr-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 30‑Apr-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8186 for 14490 (5245) Nov-56, 8800 for 14492 (5246) Nov-56, 9193 for 15371 (5193) Nov-55 and 9314 for 15307 (5179) Sep-55.

4182

Unit withdrawn 29-May-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 26‑Jun-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8201 for 14279 (5140) Nov-54, 8815 for 14278 (5139) Oct-54, 9178 for 15215 (5137) Oct-54 and 9329 for 15264 (5136) Oct-54.

4183

Unit withdrawn 1‑Aug-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 8‑Aug-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8196 for 14096 (5048) Dec-53, 8810 for 14101 and 9177 for 15176 (both 5051) Feb-54, 9324 for 15234 (5106) Feb-54.

4184

Unit withdrawn briefly 19‑Dec-50 but reinstated. MBT 8805 damaged c.May-52 (date and location unknown), and body broken‑up and underframe to Micheldever 1‑Apr-52 for storage, until taken to Eastleigh 13‑Jun-52 and cut‑up. Unit disbanded 7‑Jun-52 when both MBTs condemned, and TT 9185 to 4503(1), TT 9319 to 4586. MBT 8191 stored until bodywork scrapped (where and when?) and underframe used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicle 14510 for 5255 Feb-57.

4185

Unit withdrawn briefly 19‑Dec-50 but reinstated. MBT 8798 exchanged with 8884 (ex 4546), (date and reason unknown). 8884 was a similar 7 compartment coach with LBSC bodywork mounted onto a lengthened AC frame and weighed 39tons 9cwt giving a revised unit weight of 133tons 15cwt. Unit withdrawn 15‑Sep-53 and bodywork of all four coaches broken‑up at Lancing? by 24‑Oct-53, the underframe of 8884 also being cut there 20‑Feb-54. Remaining three underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8184 for 14226 (5113) Apr-54, 9202 for 15190 and 9312 for 15240 (both 5112) Apr-54.

4186

Unit withdrawn 10-Oct-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 7-Nov-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8204 for 14215 (5108) May-54, 8818 for 14218 (5109) May-54, 9188 for 15275 (5147) Dec-54 and 9332 for 15230 (5152) Feb-55.

4187

Unit withdrawn 18‑Dec-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 22‑Jan-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8193 for 14330 and 8807 for 14329 (both 5165) May-55, 9182 for 15292 and 9321 for 15342 (both 5164) Apr-55.

4188

Unit withdrawn 13‑May-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 10‑Apr-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8189 for 14260 (5130) Aug-54, 8803 for 14257 (5129) Aug-54, 9317 for 15254 and 10404 for 15204 (both 5126) Jul-54.

4189

Unit withdrawn 5‑Sep-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 26‑Sep-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8195 for 14417 (5209) Feb-56, 8809 for 14251 (5126) Jul-54, 9184 for 15180 (5102) Dec-53 and 9323 for 15149 (5049) Jan-54.

4190

Unit withdrawn 21‑Jan-56 and bodywork, also underframe of TT 9078 broken‑up at Longhedge by 25‑Feb-56. Remaining three underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8572 for 14449 (5225) Jun-56, 8573 for 14454 (5227) Jul-56 and 9659 for 15414 (5226) Jul-56.

4191

When unit formed, unit odd one out in whole batch with augmentation coach placed between the former first class compartments of the TT and MBT. Unit withdrawn 16‑May-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 6‑Jun-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8206 for 14080 and 8820 for 14079 (both 5040) Oct-53, 9334 for 15161 (5036) Oct-53 and 10403 for 15167 (5042) Nov-53.

4192

Unit damaged in collision at Strawberry Hill 15‑May-53 and unit withdrawn 23‑May-53. MBT 8801 scrapped and bodywork of remaining three coaches also broken‑up at Lancing? by 27‑Jun-53 and their underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8187 for 14203 (5102) Dec-53, 9315 for 15147 (5047) Dec-53 and 10408 for 15170 (5045) Nov-53.

4193

Unit withdrawn 29‑Aug-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 12‑Sep-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8181 for 14209 and 9206 for 15183 (both 5105) Feb-54, 8795 for 14207 (5104) Jan-54 and 9309 for 15150 (5050) Feb-54.

4194

Unit withdrawn 31‑Oct-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 28‑Nov-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8180 for 14232 (5116) Apr-54, 8794 for 14229 and 9308 for 15243 (both 5115) Apr-54, 9192 for 15195 (5117) May-54.

 

Back to Top

 

 


Units 4195 ‑ 4215

This series of units were similar to the 4131 ‑ 4171 batch and delivery commenced in late 1942 and ran in parallel with the 4131 batch with the last not being augmented until the first months of BR ownership in March 1948.

The difference was that the ex LSWR units used were from the sub-type formed with two identical 7½-compartment MBTs at each end and a trailer with 8-compartments and a small 10-seat saloon, five of these compartments and the saloon being the former first class accommodation (now downgraded to third); these being at one end of the coach with the saloon being between the first and third compartments. The saloon now seated 13 third.

The vehicles used for augmentation were 11-compartment ex LSWR conversions dating from 1928 – 1931; these being from the trailer unit batches numbered 1121 ‑ 1167 and 1188 ‑ 1194. Again, augmented units were formed during overhaul and repaint and again three coach units were selected as they became due for this work and not in any sort of number order.

These units were formed as follows:

 

MBT

7½ compartments

Seated 75

Weight not known

 

TT

11 compartments

Seated 110

Weight not known

 

TT

8 compartments & saloon

Seated 93 (five compartments and saloon downgraded firsts)

Weight not known

 

MBT

7½ compartments

Seated 75

Weight not known

 

Overall these units were 257' 5" long and weighed 138¼ tons though some had variable weights due to the underframe differences mentioned with the 4131 batch, fifteen of these units having the heavier underframes and large buffers. The overall seating capacity was 353.

When formed these units were all fitted with Westinghouse 339 motors, these were gradually replaced by EE 339 ones from 1950 as these motors were displaced from units being rebuilt and fitted with the EE 507 type. These units survived in traffic until withdrawn in 1954 /55 /56 and all then had their bodies scrapped at either Longhedge or Lancing shortly after withdrawal. Virtually all the underframes were recovered for use in the 4 EPB building programme.

Unit formations were as follows with the date of formation shown below the unit number, and the number of the vehicle’s original unit shown in brackets below. Those with a + after the unit number were units with the three former 12xx unit coaches mounted on the heavier underframes and with large buffers at cab ends, and coaches with a ‘*’ after the number had flush panelling.

 

Unit

MBT
(7
½-comp.)

TT
(11-comp.)

TT
(9-comp.)

MBT
(7
½-comp.)

Withdrawn

Diag. No.

676

742

772

676

 

4195+
Oct-42

8086*
(1257)

9157
(1189)

9428*
(1257)

8085*
(1257)

14-May-55

4196
Nov-42

8104
(1269)

9163
(1192)

9431
(1269)

8103
(1269)

3-Sep-55

4197+
Nov-42

8122*
(1281)

9217
(1129)

9434*
(1281)

8121*
(1281)

18-Jun-55

4198
Nov-42

8056
(1237)

9214
(1126)

9423
(1237)

8055
(1237)

21-Aug-54

4199+
Nov-42

8020*
(1213)

9213
(1125)

9417*
(1213)

8019*
(1213)

30-Apr-55

4200+
Apr-43

8002*
(1201)

9232
(1144)

9414*
(1201)

8001*
(1201)

3-Jul-54

4201+
Jul-43

8044*
(1229)

9254
(1166)

9421*
(1229)

8043*
(1229)

25-Jun-55

4202+
(Oct-43)

8014*
(1209)

9215
(1127)

9416*
(1209)

8013*
(1209)

27-Mar-54

4203*
c.Dec-43

8026*
(1209)

9251
(1165)

9418*
(1217)

8025*
(1217)

30-Oct-54

4204
1-May-44

8062
(1241)

9247
(1139)

9424
(1241)

8061
(1241)

19-Nov-55

4205+
Jul-44

8050*
(1233)

9238
(1150)

9422*
(1233)

8049*
(1233)

10-Sep-55

4206
May-45

8092
(1261)

9165
(1193)

9429
(1261)

8091
(1261)

7-Jan-56

4207+
Sep-46

8032*
(1221)

9236
(1148)

9419*
(1221)

8031*
(1221)

17-Apr-54

4208+
Sep-46

8038*
(1225)

9241
(1153)

9420*
(1225)

8037*
(1225)

17-Sep-55

4209+
Nov-46

8068*
(1245)

9228
(1140)

9425*
(1245)

8067*
(1245)

12-Feb-55

4210+
c.Jan-47

8080*
(1253)

9239
(1151)

9427*
(1253)

8079*
(1253)

8-Oct-55

4211
Nov-47

8008
(1205)

9297
(1188)

9415
(1205)

8007
(1205)

10-Jul-54

4212+
Nov-47

8116*
(1277)

9233
(1145)

9433*
(1277)

8115*
(1277)

19-Mar-55

4213+
Dec-47

8074*
(1249)

9237
(1149)

9426*
(1249)

8073*
(1249)

15-Oct-55

4214
Dec-47

8098
(1265)

9252
(1164)

9430
(1265)

8097
(1265)

26-Mar-55

4215+
Mar-48

8110*
(1273)

9255
(1167)
1022416

9432*
(1273)

8109*
(1273)

5-May-56

Notes:

16 = ‘All-steel’ augmentation trailer. Diagram 2013.

 

 

 

Individual Unit Notes
4195 - 4215

4195

Unit withdrawn 14-May-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 18‑Jun‑55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8085 for 14467 (5234) Sep-56, 8086 for 14512 (5256) Feb‑57, 9157 for 15313 (5185) Oct-55 and 9428 for 15312 (5184) Oct-55.

4196

Unit withdrawn 3‑Sep-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 1‑Oct-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8103 for 14396 (5198) Dec-55, 8104 for 14399 (5200) Dec-55, 9163 for 15419 (5231) Aug-56 and 9431 for 15381 (5203) Jan‑56.

4197

Unit withdrawn 18‑Jun‑55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 2‑Jul-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8121 for 14373 and 9217 for 15315 (both 5187) Oct-55, 8122 for 14371 (5186) Oct-55 and 9434 for 15366 (5188) Nov-55.

4198

Unit withdrawn 21‑Aug-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 18‑Sep-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8055 for 14303 (5152) Feb-55, 8056 for 14297 (5149) Jan‑55, 9214 15225 (5147) Dec-54 and 9423 for 15278 (5150) Jan‑55.

4199

Unit withdrawn 30-Apr-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 7‑May‑55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8019 for 14369 and 8020 for 14370 (both 5185) Oct-55, 9213 for 15314 (5186) Oct-55 and 9417 for 15365 (5187) Oct-55.

4200

Unit withdrawn 3‑Jul-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 31‑Jul-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8001 for 14316 (5158) Mar‑55, 8002 for 14314 and 9232 for 15285 (both 5157) Mar‑55, 9414 for 15334 (5156) Feb‑55.

4201

Unit withdrawn 25‑Jun‑55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 16‑Jul-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8043 for 14375 (5188) Nov-55, 8044 for 14377 (5189) Nov-55, 9254 for 15319 and 9421 for 15369 (both 5191) Nov-55.

4202

Unit withdrawn 27-Mar‑54 and bodywork of both trailers 9215 and 9416 broken‑up at Lancing? by 24‑Apr‑54 and their underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 9215 for 15308 and 9416 for 15358 (both 5180) Sep-55. Both MBTs used as a ‘Tractor Unit’ for movements between Peckham Rye and Strawberry Hill until Jul-56 when withdrawn and bodywork broken‑up at Newhaven and underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8013 for 15440 and 8014 for 14503 (both 5252) Jan‑57, 8013 being an unusual example of a former motorcoach frame being used under a trailer coach.

4203

Unit withdrawn 30‑Oct-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 27‑Nov-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8025 for 14318 (5159) Mar‑55, 8026 for 14320, 9251 for 15288 and 9418 for 15338 (all 5160) Mar‑55.

4204

Unit withdrawn 19‑Nov-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 17‑Dec-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8061 for 14422 (5211) Mar‑56, 8062 for 14425 and 9247 for 15391 (both 5213) Mar‑56, 9424 for 15390 (5212) Mar‑56.

4205

Unit withdrawn 10‑Sep-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 8‑Oct-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8049 for 14395 (5198) Dec-55, 8050 for 14397 (5199) Dec-55, 9238 for 15329 (5201) Jan‑56 and 9422 for 15380 (5202) Jan‑56.

4206

Unit withdrawn 7‑Jan‑56 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 4‑Feb‑56. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8091 for 14448 (5224) jun‑56, 8092 for 14441 (5221) May‑56, 9165 for 15423 (5235) Sep-56 and 9429 for 15410 (5222) Jun‑56.

4207

Unit withdrawn 17‑Apr‑54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 8‑May‑54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8031 for 14276 (5138) Oct-54, 8032 for 14281 (5141) Nov-54, 9236 for 15217 (5139) Oct-54 and 9419 for 15351 (5173) Jul-55.

4208

Unit withdrawn 17‑Sep-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 15‑Oct-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8037 for 14402 (5201) Jan‑56, 8038 for 14400 (5200) Dec-55, 9241 for 15332 (5204) Jan‑56 and 9420 for 15383 (5205) Jan‑56.

4209

Unit withdrawn 12-Feb‑55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 12‑Mar‑55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8067 for 14343 and 9228 for 15300 (both 5172) Jun‑55, 8068 for 14340 (5170) Jun‑55 and 9425 for 15379 (5201) Jan‑56.

4210

Unit withdrawn 8‑Oct-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 5‑Nov-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8079 for 14407 (5204) Jan‑56, 8080 for 14406 (5203) Jan‑56, 9239 for 15395 (5207) Feb‑56 and 9427 for 15397 (5209) Feb‑56.

4211

Unit withdrawn 10‑Jul-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 7‑Aug-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8007 for 14286, 8008 for 14285 and 9297 for 15221 (all 5143) Nov-54, 9415 for 15269 (5141) Nov-54.

4212

Unit withdrawn 19‑Mar‑55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 16‑Apr‑55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8115 for 14355 and 9233 for 15306 (both 5178) Sep-55, 8116 for 14354 and 9433 for 15355 (both 5177) Aug-55.

4213

Unit withdrawn 15‑Oct-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 12‑Nov-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8073 for 14450 (5225) Jun‑56, 8074 for 14445 (5223) Jun‑56, 9237 for 15428 (5240) Oct-56 and 9426 for 15412 (5224) Jun‑56.

4214

Unit withdrawn 26‑Mar‑55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 23‑Apr‑55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8097 for 14358 and 9430 for 15357 (both 5179) Sep-55, 8098 for 14356 and 9252 for 15356 (both 5178) Sep-55.

4215

TT 9255 exchanged with TT 10224 (ex 4565) Jul-55, an all‑steel augmentation trailer seating 120, unit now seating 363 and weighing 140 tons. Unit withdrawn 5‑May‑56 and bodywork of all three wooden-bodied coaches broken‑up at Longhedge by 9‑Jun‑56. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8109 for 14473 (5237) Oct-56, 8110 for 14472 (5236) Sep-56 and 9432 for 15426 (5238) Oct-56. Trailer 10224 converted to EP braking and renumbered 15044 for unit 5226 Jun-56.

 

Back to Top

 


Units 4216 ‑ 4234

 

This batch of units was almost identical to the 4195 ‑ 4215 series, the only difference being that the three-car motor units used in this batch had a slightly larger saloon in the trailer coach which seated 12 rather than 10 in the previous batch; these now seated 15 following downgrading. Similar 11-compartment ex LSWR coaches from trailer units were used for the augmentation. Units were again selected for augmentation when due for a body overhaul and repaint and not in any sort of number order.

These units were formed as follows:

 

MBT

7½ compartments

Seated 75

Weight not known

 

TT

11 compartments

Seated 110

Weight not known

 

TT

8 compartments & saloon

Seated 95 (five compartments and saloon downgraded firsts)

Weight not known

 

MBT

7½ compartments

Seated 75

Weight not known

Overall these units were 257' 5" long and again had variable weights due to the underframe differences mentioned with the previous batches, with most weighing 138 tons 6cwt overall. Thirteen of these units had the former 12xx unit coaches mounted on the heavier underframes and with large buffers at cab ends. The overall seating capacity was 355.

Like the previous batches, the Westinghouse 339 motors fitted in this batch began to be replaced with EE 339 ones from early 1950. These units survived in traffic until withdrawn between 1954 and 1956 and all had their bodies scrapped at either Longhedge or Lancing shortly after withdrawal and underframes recovered for use in the 4 EPB building programme.

Unit formations were as follows with the date of formation shown below the unit number, and the number of the vehicles' original unit shown in brackets below. Units with the three former 12xx unit vehicles mounted on the heavier underframes are marked with a + after the unit number, whilst coaches that were flush‑panelled during rebuilding are marked with ‘*’ after the coach number.

 

Unit

MBT
(7
½-comp.)

TT
(11-comp.)

TT
(9-comp.)

MBT
(7
½-comp.)

Withdrawn

Diag. No.

676

742

771

676

 

4216
Jan-43

8052
(1234)

9235
(1147)

9359
(1234)

8051
(1234)

24-Jul-54

4217
May-43

8094
(1262)

9211
(1123)

9366
(1262)
9352

8093
(1262)

16-Jul-55

4218
Aug-43

8010
(1206)

9231
(1143)

9352
(1206)
9366

8009
(1206)

31-Jul-54

4219
Aug-43

8088
(1258)

9245
(1157)

9365
(1258)

8087
(1258)

26-Nov-55

4220
Oct-43

8070*
(1246)

9242
(1154)

9362*
(1246)

8069*
(1246)

9-Oct-54

4221+
Nov-43

8082*
(1254)

9222
(1134)

9364*
(1254)

8081*
(1254)

24-Dec-55

4222+
Jan-44

8124
(1282)

9220
(1132)

9371
(1282)

8123
(1282)

8-Nov-47

4223+
Jan-44

8040*
(1226)

9219
(1131)

9357*
(1226)

8039*
(1226)

1-Jan-55

4224+
Jan-44

8064
(1242)
8123

9249
(1161)

9361
(1242)

8063
(1242)

1-May-54

4225+
Feb-44

8106*
(1270)

9161
(1192)

9368*
(1270)

8105*
(1270)

22-May-54

4226+
May-44

8021*
(1214)

9229
(1141)

9354*
(1214)

8022*
(1214)

7-May-55

4227+
Nov-44

8118*
(1278)

9226
(1138)

9370*
(1278)

8117*
(1278)

19-Jun-54

4228+
Sep-46

8046*
(1230)
800517

9210
(1122)

9358*
(1230)

8045*
(1230)

9-Apr-55

4229
Sep-46

8034
(1222)

9248
(1160)

9356
(1222)

8033
(1222)

23-Oct-54

4230+
(Jul-47)

8058*
(1238)

9159
(1190)

9360*
(1238)

8057*
(1238)

16-Oct-54

4231+
Dec-47

8076
(1250)

9225
(1137)

9363
(1250)

8075
(1250)

29-Oct-55

4232+
(Dec-47)

8028*
(1218)

9246
(1158)

9355*
(1218)

8027*
(1218)

1-Oct-55

4233+
(Mar-48)

8100
(1266)

9221
(1133)

9367
(1266)

8099
(1266)

19-Apr-52

4234+
(May-48)

8112*
(1274)

9224
(1136)

9369*
(1274)

8111*
(1274)

30-Apr-55

Notes:

17 = 8-compt. MBT. Diagram 685.

 

 

Individual Unit Notes
4216- 4234

4216

Unit withdrawn 24‑Jul-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 21‑Aug-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8051 for 14289 and 8052 for 14290 (both 5145) Dec-54, 9235 for 15220 and 9359 for 15270 (both 5142) Nov-54.

4217

TT 9366 exchanged with 9352 (ex 4218) 1951 (reason unknown). Unit withdrawn 16‑Jul-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 15‑Aug-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8093 for 14380 (5190) Nov-55, 8094 for 14383 (5192) Nov-55, 9211 for 15322 (5194) Dec-55 and 9352 for 15373 (5195) Dec-55.

4218

TT 9352 exchanged with 9366 (ex 4217) 1951 (reason unknown). Unit withdrawn 31‑Jul-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 28‑Aug-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8009 for 14295 (5148) Dec-54, 8010 for 14293 (5147) Dec-54, 9231 for 15223 (5145) Dec-54 and 9366 for 15272 (5144) Nov-54.

4219

Unit withdrawn 26‑Nov-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 24‑Dec-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8087 for 14427 and 8088 for 14428 (both 5214) Mar-56, 9245 for 15443 (5255) Feb-57 and 9365 for 15406 (5218) Apr-56.

4220

Unit withdrawn 9‑Oct-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 6‑Nov-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8069 for 14313 and 9362 for 15335 (both 5157) Mar-55, 8070 for 14311 and 9242 for 15284 (both 5156) Feb-55.

4221

Unit withdrawn 24‑Dec-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 21‑Jan-56. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8081 for 14440 and 9364 for 15408 (both 5220) May-56, 8082 for 14438 (5219) May-56 and 9222 for 15433 (5245) Nov-56.

4222

Unit in collision with 4406 at Motspur Park 5.50pm 6‑Nov-47 and MBT 8124 and TT 9371 both badly damaged, bodies broken‑up on site and withdrawn 8‑Nov-47. Unit 4228 was also involved.

The 4.45pm Holmwood to Waterloo (running twenty-three minutes late) passed the Motspur Park Up Main (Leatherhead line) outer home signal (no.13) at danger having been given a clear handsignal to do so by the fogsignalman. After travelling 300 yards it collided with the 5.16pm Waterloo to Chessington (running twelve minutes late) which was crossing its path under clear signals.

Both trains were formed of two four-coach electric units. The leading coach of the Waterloo train struck the second coach of the Chessington train a few feet from its trailing end, but the full force of the impact was taken by the next coach in rear. This coach and the leading coach of the Waterloo train were overturned on their right hand sides away from each other and the following coach of each train was partially overturned to the right.

In total four coaches were derailed; the two leading coaches of the Chessington train broke away from the remained and ran forward for about 87 yards. It would appear the derailed coaches comprised the leading pair of the Waterloo train and 3rd and 4th of the Chessington train. The leading coach of the Waterloo train was destroyed.

Three passengers lost their lives and a Motorman travelling passenger also succumbed to his injuries; all being in the leading motor coach of the Waterloo train. Eight passengers were detained in hospital and another ninety-two suffered minor injuries or shock.

Unit disbanded and MBT 8123 and TT 9220 both temporarily to 4406 until Jul-48 then MBT 8123 to 4224 cJul-48, TT 9220 to 4242 from Jul-48. Underframes of 8124 and 9371 later cut‑up at Lancing 10‑Jan-48.

4223

Unit withdrawn 1‑Jan-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 29‑Jan-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8039 for 14335 (5168) May-55, 8040 for 14333, 9219 for 15295 and 9357 for 15345 (all 5167) May-55.

4224

MBT 8064 damaged in collision with locomotive at Dartford 14‑Jun-48 and withdrawn, scrapped on site 23‑Jun-48. Replaced from Jun-48 by 8123 ex 4222 via 4406.

Unit withdrawn 1‑May-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 29‑May-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8063 for 14265 (5133) Sep-54, 8123 for 14267 (5134) Sep-54, 9249 for 15208 (5130) Aug-54 and 9361 for 15259 (5131) Sep-54.

4225

Unit withdrawn 22‑May-54 and MBT 8106 to 4520, remaining coaches had bodies broken‑up at Lancing? by 19‑Jun-54 and underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8105 for 14272 (5136) Oct-54, 9161 for 15212 (5134) Sep-54 and 9368 for 15263 (5135) Sep-54.

4226

Unit withdrawn 7‑May-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 4‑Jun-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8021 for 14447 (5224) Jun-56, 8022 for 14367 (5184) Oct-55, 9229 for 15318 (5190) Nov-55 and 9354 for 15363 (5185) Oct-55.

4227

Unit withdrawn 19‑Jun-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 17‑Jul-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8117 for 14332, 9226 for 15294 and 9370 for 15344 (all 5166) May-55, 8118 for 14336 (5168) May-55.

4228

Unit involved in Motspur Park collision 5.50pm 6‑Nov-47 (units 4222 and 4406 collided) and MBT 8046 damaged and exchanged with 8-compartment 8005 (ex 4169), this coach had small buffers. Unit now seated 360 and weighed 138½ tons.

The 4.45pm Holmwood to Waterloo (running twenty-three minutes late) passed the Motspur Park Up Main (Leatherhead line) outer home signal (no.13) at danger having been given a clear handsignal to do so by the fogsignalman. After travelling 300 yards it collided with the 5.16pm Waterloo to Chessington (running twelve minutes late) which was crossing its path under clear signals.

Both trains were formed of two four-coach electric units. The leading coach of the Waterloo train struck the second coach of the Chessington train a few feet from its trailing end, but the full force of the impact was taken by the next coach in rear. This coach and the leading coach of the Waterloo train were overturned on their right hand sides away from each other and the following coach of each train was partially overturned to the right.

In total four coaches were derailed; the two leading coaches of the Chessington train broke away from the remained and ran forward for about 87 yards. It would appear the derailed coaches comprised the leading pair of the Waterloo train and 3rd and 4th of the Chessington train. The leading coach of the Waterloo train was destroyed.

Three passengers lost their lives and a Motorman travelling passenger also succumbed to his injuries; all being in the leading motor coach of the Waterloo train. Eight passengers were detained in hospital and another ninety-two suffered minor injuries or shock.

Unit withdrawn 9‑Apr-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 7‑May-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8005 for 14409 (5205) Jan-56, 8045 for 14408 (5204) Jan-56, 9210 for 15385 (5207) Feb-56 and 9358 for 15388 (5210) Mar-56.

4229

Unit withdrawn 23‑Oct-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 20‑Nov-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8033 for 14315 (5158) Mar-55, 8034 for 14312 (5156) Feb-55, 9248 for 15233 and 9356 for 15283 (both 5155) Feb-55.

4230

Unit withdrawn 16‑Oct-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 13‑Nov-54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8057 for 14310 (5155) Feb-55, 8058 for 14308, 9159 for 15232 and 9360 for 15282 (all 5154) Feb-55.

4231

Unit withdrawn 29‑Oct-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 26‑Nov-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8075 for 14451 (5226) Jul-56, 8076 for 14453 (5227) Jul-56, 9225 for 15427 (5239) Oct-56 and 9363 for 15392 (5214) Mar-56.

4232

Unit withdrawn 1‑Oct-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 29‑Oct-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8027 for 14405 (5203) Jan-56, 8028 for 14410 (5205) Jan-56, 9246 for 15384 and 9355 for 15394 (both 5206) Feb-56.

4233

Unit damaged (where?) and disbanded 19‑Apr-52, MBT 8100 scrapped at Eastleigh c31‑Jul-52 and bodywork of TT 9221 also scrapped there and underframe used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicle 15387 (5209) Feb-56. TT 9367 to 4594 from Sep-52, MBT 8099 to 4316 from Oct-52.

4234

Unit withdrawn 30‑Apr-55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 21‑May-55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8111 for 14361, 9224 for 15309 and 9369 for 15359 (all 5181) Sep-55, 8112 for 14359 (5180) Sep-55.

 

Back to Top

 

               


Units 4235 ‑ 4250

This batch of augmented units utilised the remaining 11-compartment Trailer Thirds from disbanded trailer sets from the 1121 ‑ 1167 batch also unit 1194, which had also been used previously to augment units 4216 ‑ 4234 from the ex LSWR units of 1915 and rebuilt from 1934. These coaches had been converted to electric trailer coaches in 1928/29 and consisted of 11-compartments seating 110 and weighing 26 tons 6cwt. Similar modifications to buffing and jumper cables were required to enable them to be used intermediately within motor units, altering their Diagram Numbers from 727 to 742 upon conversion.

These coaches were then used from mid 1948 until mid 1949 to augment the remaining ex LSWR bodied 1928 conversions from the 1658 ‑ 1701 batch, twenty two of these having been previously dealt with by the addition of a 10-compartment trailer and becoming 4 SUB units 4172 ‑ 4195.

These units were formed as follows:

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 39 tons 14cwt

 

TT

11 compartments

Seated 110

Weight 26 tons 6 cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 100

Weight 27 tons 12 cwt

 

MBT

7 compartments

Seated 70

Weight 39 tons 12 cwt

 

The 10-compartment TT and 7-compartment MBT both had downgraded former first class compartments, now each seating five-aside, five in the TT and two in the MBT being marshalled together. Overall these units seated 360 third, were 257' 5" long and weighed about 133 tons 6cwt .

Unit 1695 had a non-standard formation with a 10-compartment TT with only four former first class compartments, though this was later exchanged with a 10-compartment coach with the standard five downgraded firsts, whilst the 7-compartment MBT had originally had one additional compartment fitted out as first class, this unit was now standard following downgrading and it took the lowest number, 4235.

Units 4249 and 4250 were also non-standard as the augmentation coach was another 10-compartment coach seating 100, these two units being identical to the 4172 ‑ 4195 batch and seating 350, presumably taking these two numbers as the next lowest vacant ones available. The last unit of this batch, 4250 was also the second unit to carry this number. Unit 4246 contained a ‘wedge end’ MBT after an earlier reformation.

With the exception of 4235, all this batch were augmented following Nationalisation and appeared in early British Railways style livery, some with an ‘S’ prefix to the unit number. These units began to be withdrawn during 1953; the last just seeing service in 1955. All vehicles were sent for breaking‑up of bodies at either Longhedge or Lancing shortly after withdrawal, their underframes then being recovered for further use in the 4 EPB building programme.

Unit formations were as follows with the date of formation shown below the unit number, and the number of the vehicles' original unit shown in brackets below.

 

Unit

MBT
(8-comp.)

TT
(11-comp.)

TT
(10-comp.)

MBT
(7-comp.)

Withdrawn

Diag. No.

671

742

760

697

 

4235
Jul-47

8216
(1695)

9218
(1130)

9344
(1695)
937618

8830
(1695)

15-Aug-53

Diag. No.

671

742

759

691

 

4236
Mar-48

8207
(1262)

9212
(1123)

9335
(1686)

8821
(1686)

6-Feb-54

4237
(Mar-48)

8210
(1689)

9234
(1146)

9338
(1689)

8824
(1689)

19-Sep-53

4238
(Mar-48)

8220
(1699)

9223
(1135)

9348
(1699)

8834
(1699)

18-Sep-54

Diag. No.

671

742

759

697

 

4239
(Apr-48)

8209
(1688)

9253
(1165)

9337
(1688)

9809
(1688)

5-Jun-54

Diag. No.

671

742

759

691

 

4240
Jul-48

8219
(1698)

9209
(1121)

9347
(1698)

8833
(1698)

24-Oct-53

4241
Jul-48

8221
(1700)

9230
(1142)

9349
(1700)

8835
(1700)

1-Aug-53

4242
Oct-48

8202
(1681)

9220
(4406)

9330
(1681)

8816
(1681)

19-Dec-53

4243
Oct-48

8212
(1691)

9167
(1194)

9340
(1691)

8826
(1691)

22-Aug-53

4244
Oct-48

8214
(1693)

9244
(1156)

9342
(1693)

8828
(1693)
857919

5-Dec-53

4245
(Nov-48)

8208
(1687)

9216
(1128)

9336
(1687)

8822
(1687)

3-Apr-54

Diag. No.

671

742

759

698

 

4246
Nov-48

8218
(1697)

9250
(1162)

9346
(1697)

877920
(1697)

17-Oct-53

Diag. No.

671

742

759

691

 

4247
Dec-48

8215
(1694)

9243
(1155)

9343
(1694)

8829
(1694)

4-Dec-54

4248
Jan-49

8211
(1690)

9240
(1152)

9339
(1690)

8825
(1690)

14-Nov-53

 

 

 

(10-comp.)

 

 

Diag. No.

671

742

760

697

 

4249
(May-49)

8190
(1669)

9197
(1038)

9318
(1669)

8804
(1669)

5-Sep-53

Diag. No.

671

740

760

697

 

4250 (2)
Apr-49

8199
(1678)

9299
(998)

9327
(1678)

8813
(1678)

15-Jan-55

Notes:

18 = 10-compt. Diagram 769.
19 = 8-compt. Diagram 683.

20 = MBT original ex-LSWR conversion with ‘wedge-end’ cab.

 

 

 

Individual Unit Notes
4235- 4250

4235

10 Compt. TT 9344 exchanged with 9376 (ex 4154) (date unknown) and unit now weighed 134 tons 6cwt. Unit withdrawn 15-Aug-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 5-Sep-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8216 for 14222 (5111) Mar‑54, 8830 for 14214 (5107) Mar‑54, 9218 for 15186 and 9376 for 15236 (both 5108) Mar‑54.

4236

Unit withdrawn 6-Feb-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 6‑Mar‑54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8207 for 14252 (5126) Jul‑54, 8821 for 14255 (5128) Aug‑54, 9212 for 15203 (5125) Jul‑54 and 9335 for 15255 (5127) Aug‑54.

4237

Unit withdrawn 19‑Sep‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 10‑Oct‑53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8210 for 14244 (5122) Jun‑54, 8824 for 14246 (5123) Jun‑54, 9234 for 15222 (5144) Nov‑54 and 9338 for 15175 (5050) Feb‑54.

4238

Unit withdrawn 18‑Sep‑54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 16‑Oct‑54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8220 for 14302 (5151) Jan‑55, 8834 for 14300 and 9223 for 15228 (both 5150) Jan‑55 and 9348 for 15281 (5153) Feb‑55.

4239

Unit withdrawn 5‑Jun‑54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 3‑Jul‑54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8209 for 14331 (5166) May‑55, 9253 for 15293 (5165) May‑55, 9337 for 15214 (5136) Oct‑54 and 9809 for 14334 (5167) May‑55.

4240

Unit withdrawn 24-Oct-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 21‑Nov‑53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8219 for 14228 (5114) Apr‑54, 8833 for 14213, 9209 for 15185 and 9347 for 15235 (all 5107) Mar‑54.

4241

Unit withdrawn 1‑Aug‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 29‑Aug‑53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8221 for 14418 (5209) Feb‑56, 8835 for 14241 (5121) Jun‑54, 9230 for 15181 (5103) Jan‑54 and 9349 for 15154 (5101) Dec‑53.

4242

Unit augmented with TT 9220 ex withdrawn 4222 and via 4406. Unit withdrawn 19‑Dec‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 16‑Jan‑54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8202 for 14236 (5118) May‑54, 8816 for 14243 (5122) Jun‑54, 9220 for 15211 (5133) Sep‑54 and 9330 for 15262 (5134) Sep‑54.

4243

Unit withdrawn 22‑Aug‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 19‑Sep‑53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8212 for 14106, 8826 for 14105, 9167 for 15178 and 9340 for 15153 (all 5053) Mar‑54.

4244

MBT 8828 damaged c.Mar-51 (where?) and exchanged with 8579 (ex 4593), an 8 compartment coach seating 80, overall unit total now 370. Unit withdrawn 5‑Dec‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 2‑Jan‑54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8214 for 14237 (5119) May‑54, 8579 for 14235 (5118) May‑54, 9244 for 15194 (5116) Apr‑54 and 9342 for 15245 (5117) May‑54.

4245

Unit withdrawn 3‑Apr‑54 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 1‑May‑54. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8208 for 14268 (5134) Sep‑54, 8822 for 14261 (5131) Sep‑54, 9216 for 15206 (5128) Aug‑54 and 9336 for 15258 (5130) Aug‑54.

4246

Unit non-standard as MBT 8779 from the original ‘1915’ batch of units with ‘wedge-end’ cab and weighed 135 tons 2cwt. Unit withdrawn 17‑Oct‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 14‑Nov‑53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8218 for 14238 (5119) May‑54, 8779 for 14275 (5138) Oct‑54, 9250 for 15196 and 9346 for 15246 (both 5118) May‑54.

4247

Unit withdrawn 4‑Dec‑54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 1‑Jan‑55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8215 for 14324, 9243 for 15290 and 9343 for 15340 (all 5162) Apr-55, 8829 for 14326 (5163) Apr‑55.

4248

Unit withdrawn 14‑Nov‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 12‑Dec‑53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8211 for 14219 (5110) Mar‑54, 8825 for 14217, 9240 for 15187 and 9339 for 15237 (all 5109) Mar‑54.

4249

Unit withdrawn 5‑Sep‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 3-Oct-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8190 for 14210 (5105) Feb‑54, 8804 for 14212 (5106) Feb‑54, 9197 for 15182 and 9318 for 15157 (both 5104) Jan‑54.

4250

Unit withdrawn 15‑Jan‑55 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 12‑Feb‑55. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8199 for 14339, 9299 for 15298 and 9327 for 15348 (all 5170) Jun-55, 8813 for 14357 (5179) Sep‑55.

This was the second unit to carry this number being formed in Apr-49. A previous unit no. 4250 carried the number 4250 from Aug-43 to Nov-47.


 

Back to Top

 


Units 4250 ‑ 4257

This small batch of units were formed from vehicles taken from war‑damaged or accident damaged three coach motor units and formed into four coach units. No additional vehicles taken from trailer units were involved. The first was formed during mid 1943 and the last was not made up until early in 1948. Due to the differing origins of the vehicles these units did not have a standard weight or seating capacities, though all were 257' 5" long overall. With the exception of the last unit formed which had two 8-compartment MBTs, all were formed with one 8-compartment MBT and one 7-compartment MBT and two intermediate trailers, both of which contained some downgraded first class compartments and some had 9 and others 10-compartments.

The seating capacities of these units varied, and it is not clear whether quoted capacities included the former first class accommodation as seating four aside as designed, or whether the armrests were removed or sewn‑up and this seating was now classified as five aside. Both capacities are quoted below, with the five aside figure in italics.

The Diagram Nos. of some of the trailers were altered when these units were formed as a result of alterations to their buffing arrangement, the TT of a three-coach motor unit which was fitted with centre-buffer and three-link chain couplings having a centre-buffer at each end. However one now required a rubbing plate at one end.

Two of this small batch were withdrawn in March 1950 (these two being the last running with former LBSC ex steam stock bodies) and their underframes used in construction of new 4 SUB vehicles, whilst a further three were withdrawn for scrapping in 1953 and one further in 1956, their underframes being used in the construction of new 4 EPB vehicles. The remaining unit was then renumbered as 4518 late in 1956.

 

Unit 4250 formed by August 1943 consisted of ex LBSC conversion unit 1709 augmented with the trailer of similar unit 1722, withdrawn following war damage at Charing Cross. Overall unit weighed 129 tons 12cwt and seated 328, (350). All these coaches were mounted onto standard underframes.

This unit was formed thus:

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 38 tons 19cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 92 (This was the augmentation vehicle with four compartments at one end downgraded firsts)

Weight 25 tons 7cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 92 (Four compartments at one end downgraded firsts)

Weight 26 tons 7cwt

 

MBT

7 compartments

Seated 64 (Three compartments at non-driving end downgraded firsts)

Weight 38 tons 19cwt

 

Unit 4251 was formed March 1944 with 3 coach unit 1736 augmented with a further identical trailer from unit 1741 disbanded after enemy action damage at Slade Green. The motorcoaches had identical seating capacities to those in unit 4250 and both trailers in this unit were 10-compartment vehicles with four downgraded firsts in each. Overall this unit weighed 129 tons 12cwt and seated 328 (350). All these coaches were mounted on lengthened former AC underframes. The augmenting TT had its Diagram No. altered from 761 to 773.

 

Unit 4252 was formed February 1945 and was similar to 4251 with three coach unit 1761 being augmented with the trailer from war damaged 1728 at Walworth. Again the augmenting TT had a revised Diagram No.

 

Unit 4253 was formed July 1945 and all four vehicles were ex LSWR bodies mounted on standard underframes. Two vehicles came from each of units 1667 and 1774, the first having lost a motorcoach in a collision at Caterham in June 1945 whilst 1774 donated its ex SECR motorcoach, gained after war damage, back to the ex SECR bodied unit 1404 which had collided with 1667 at Caterham. Overall this unit seated 328 (350) and weighed 133 tons.

Unit 4253 consisted of:

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 39 tons 14cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 92 (Four compartments downgraded firsts)

Weight 26 tons

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 92 (Five compartments downgraded firsts)
Diagram No. amended from 759 to 774.

Weight 27 tons 12cwt

 

MBT

7 compartments

Seated 66 (Two compartments downgraded firsts)

Weight 39 tons 14cwt

 

Unit 4254 was formed in October 1946 with two ex SECR conversions from unit 1474 and two ex LBSC conversions from unit 1730, both these units having lost a motorcoach following a collision between them at Beckenham on 23rd October 1946. The two ex SECR conversions were on Ashford built standard underframes, those of the ex LBSC vehicles on lengthened AC underframes. Overall this unit seated 312 (340) and weighed 133 tons 6cwt.

This unit consisted of:

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 41 tons

 

TT

9 compartments

Seated 76 (Seven downgraded firsts with one original third each end)

Weight 27 tons 10cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 92 (Four downgraded firsts at one end)
Diagram No. revised from 761 to 773.

Weight 25 tons 7cwt

 

MBT

7 compartments

Seated 64 (Three downgraded firsts at non-driving end)

Weight 39 tons 9cwt

 

Unit 4255 was formed April 1947 from four ex LSWR conversions of 1928, all from the 1658 ‑ 1701 batch of units, two coming from 1701 collision damaged in December 1946, the other two coaches coming from 1673 which was disbanded also after collision damage December 1946 and donated a motorcoach to 4 SUB 4161 damaged in a collision at Strood. All four vehicles were on standard underframes. Overall this unit seated 326 (350) and weighed 134 tons 12cwt.

The unit consisted of:

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 39 tons 14cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 90 (Five compartments at one end downgraded firsts)

Weight 27 tons 12cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 90 (Five compartments at one end downgraded firsts)

Weight 27 tons 12cwt

 

MBT

7 compartments

Seated 66 (Two compartments at non-driving end downgraded firsts)

Weight 39 tons 14cwt

 

Unit 4256 was formed March 1948 using three coach ex LBSC conversion 1703 augmented by an ex SECR coach displaced from already augmented 4 SUB unit 4442 (1) which was damaged in a collision at Crayford Feb-48 and disbanded. Unit had three standard and one Ashford underframe. Overall this unit seated 312 (340) and weighed 131¾ tons.

This unit consisted of:

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 38 tons 19cwt

 

TT

9 compartments

Seated 76 (Seven downgraded firsts with one original third at each end)

Weight 27 tons 10cwt

 

TT

10 compartments

Seated 92 (Four downgraded firsts at one end)

Weight 26 tons 7cwt

 

MBT

7 compartments

Seated 64 (Three downgraded firsts at non driving end)

Weight 39 tons 19cwt

 

Unit 4257 was formed March 1948 using three coach ex LBSC conversion 1649 augmented by an ex LBSC coach displaced from already augmented 4 SUB 4607 which was damaged in a collision at Crayford February 1948 and disbanded. All four coaches were on standard underframes. Overall this unit seated 312 (340) and weighed 130 tons 13cwt.

This unit consisted of:

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 38 tons 19cwt

 

TT

9 compartments

Seated 76 (Seven downgraded firsts)

Weight 26 tons 7cwt

 

TT

9 compartments

Seated 76 (Seven downgraded firsts)

Weight 26 tons 8cwt

 

MBT

8 compartments

Seated 80

Weight 38 tons 19cwt

 

 

Unit

MBT
(8-comp.)

TT
(10-comp.)

TT
(10-comp.)

MBT
(7-comp.)

Withdrawn

Diag. No.

672

761

763

692

 

4250
Aug-43

8678
(1709)

9722
(1722)

9709
(1709)

8844
(1709)

8-Nov-47

Diag. No.

678

773

761

694

 

4251
Mar-44

8705*
(1736)

9741*
(1741)

9736*
(1736)

8871*
(1761)

Renumbered 4518 (2) 15-Dec-56

4252
Feb-45

8738*
(1761)

9728*
(1728)

9472*
(1761)

8896*
(1761)

16-May-53

Diag. No.

671

760

774

691

 

4253
(Jul-45)

8556
(1774)

9650
(1774)

9316
(1667)

8802
(1667)

27-Jun-53

 

 

(9-comp.)

 

 

 

Diag. No.

662

754

773

694

 

4254
(Oct-46)

8373#
(1471)
987621

9527#
(1474)

9730*
(1730)

8865*
(1730)

25-Feb-56

 

 

(10-comp.)

 

 

 

Diag. No.

671

759

759

691

 

4255
Apr-47

8194
(1673)

9322
(1673)

9350
(1701)

8836
(1701)

27-Jun-53

 

 

(9-comp.)

 

 

 

Diag. No.

672

755

763

692

 

4256
Mar-48

8672
(1703)

9505#
(4442)

9703
(1703)

8838
(1703)

18-Mar-50

 

 

 

(9-comp.)

(8-comp.)

 

Diag. No.

673

762

762

673

 

4257
Mar-48

8653
(1649)

9693
(1649)

9670
(4607)

8654
(1649)

11-Mar-50

Notes:

21 = Ex 2 NOL 7½ Compt MBT, Diagram 686.

* Coaches on lengthened ‘AC’ underframes

# Coaches on Ashford underframes

 

 

Individual Unit Notes
4250- 4257

4250

Unit in collision with steam hauled passenger train hauled by locomotive 1901 at Herne Hill 6-Nov-47 and MBT 8678 and TT 9722 both badly damaged and withdrawn 8-Nov-47, being broken-up on site. Unit disbanded and bodies of other two coaches also later broken-up, damaged TT 9709 at Coulsdon North Dec-47 and MBT 8844 at Lancing 20-Mar-48. Both their underframes used in construction of new 4 SUB vehicles: 9709 for 12363 (4623) May-49 and 8844 for 11382 (4661) Feb-50.

This was the first unit to carry this number from Aug-43 to Nov-47. A second unit carried number 4250 from Apr-49 to Jan-55.

4251

Unit renumbered 4518 (2nd with that number) from 15‑Dec‑56.

4252

Unit withdrawn 16‑May‑53 and both trailers 9472 and 9728 to unit 4134. Both MBTs retained as a ’towing unit’ for use between Wimbledon Park and Strawberry Hill until Sep‑56. Moved to Hassocks 4‑Oct‑56 en route to Newhaven for scrapping.

4253

Unit withdrawn 27‑Jun‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 11‑Jul‑53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8556 for 14093 (5047) Dec‑53, 8802 for 14201 (5101) Dec‑53, 9316 for 15177 (5052) Mar‑54 and 9650 for 15151 (5051) Feb‑54.

4254

MBT 8373 to 4468 Nov‑47 and replaced by 9876, (ex 1828 via 1799), an ex 2 NOL MBT with 7½ compartments seating 75. Overall unit capacity now 307 (or 335 depending on downgraded first configuration) and unit now weighed 133 tons 12cwt. This made unit unique as the only one to include coaches from all three pre-grouping companies in its formation. When unit withdrawn 25‑Feb‑56 it was the last running with an ex SECR conversion coach. TT 9730 reformed into unit 4501 (2nd). MBT 8865 (on lengthened AC frame) not condemned until 25‑Aug‑56 and scrapped at Longhedge 14‑Sep‑56, remaining two coaches had bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 24‑Mar‑56, and their underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 9527 for 15418 (5230) Aug‑56 and 9876 for 14488 (5244) Nov‑56.

4255

Unit withdrawn 27‑Jun‑53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 11‑Jul‑53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8194 for 14205 (5103) Jan‑54, 8836 for 14204 (5102) Dec‑53, 9322 for 15143 and 9350 for 15168 (both 5043) Nov‑53.

4256

Unit withdrawn 18‑Mar‑50 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing by that date! Underframes used in construction of new 4 SUB vehicles: 8672 for 12683 (4676) Jun‑50, 8838 for 12681 (4675) Jun‑50, 9505 for 8960 (4680) Jul‑50 and 9703 for 8984 (4704) Nov‑50.

4257

Unit withdrawn 4‑Mar‑50 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing by 11‑Mar‑50. Underframes used in construction of new 4 SUB vehicles outshopped in May‑50: 8653 for 12672 (4670), 8654 for 12674 (4671), 9670 for 8952 (4672) and 9693 for 8951 (4671).

 

           

Back to Top

 

 


Units 4300 ‑ 4325

 

This series of units consisted of the 1925 contractor built ‘Guildford and Dorking’ stock, augmented with a new augmentation trailer from Eastleigh, mounted on a new standard 62' 0" underframe from Lancing. These new coaches were to the new body style of the 4 SUB units with curved bodysides from gutter to solebar level to give maximum width at waist level and allowing seating to be six aside in the compartments. They were ordered to HO 1094 which covered all vehicles, this order being sub-divided into H.O. 1094A for 10346 ‑ 10375, H.O. 1094B for 10376 ‑ 10390 and H.O. 1094C for 10391 ‑ 10400.

The vehicles were constructed from large metal pressings, most of which incorporated a ¼ light window at each end, the outer edges of each pressing forming the door edges of the adjacent doorway each side, with smaller pressings used for the two panels at each end of the body sides with only one ¼ light window included. Vehicle ends were also a large pressing with some vertical ribbing to give added strength. Doors were steel with a curved profile to match the bodyside shape, each door having a droplight with two small semi-circular air vents above. The overall width of these vehicles was 9' 0" and they contrasted with the much flatter sides of the three coach motor unit vehicles which were 8' 6" wide.

Each compartment in the new trailers was 6' 1" in width and with six‑aside seating seated 12 third class passengers; with ten compartments this gave an overall seating capacity for the vehicle of 120 third. These vehicles weighed 28 tons and were outshopped in numerical order, the next available being used for whichever unit was due for revarnishing and augmentation.

As the augmentation of the 1496 ‑ 1524 batch was taking place simultaneously, the coaches from this first batch of augmentation trailers, 10346 ‑ 10400 were used in both batches of units. A major change in procedures at Eastleigh during 1946 saw the construction of new vehicles altered to include steel roofs, which up to this point had been of canvas covered timber construction. This change took place during the construction of the augmentation trailers of this batch, and only the last ten built had steel roofs; only one of these vehicles finding its way into the augmented units of this batch.

The three coach motor units used for this batch had many non‑standard features being contractor built; the principle one being that they were built on underframes which were shorter than normal and had one less compartment per vehicle as a consequence. They were wider at 8’ 6” than the usual 8’ 0” body width and also had a round buffers and a slightly different buffer height and had the distinctive ‘wedge ended’ cab design of the original LSWR stock of 1915.

Units were selected for augmentation as they became due for revarnishing from mid-1945, all being done by February 1946. They were renumbered in a new series from 4300 upwards to 4325 taking account of their original order, but as the next available augmentation trailer was used, these new coaches did not go into units in numerical order.

As reformed, units 4300 ‑ 4325 consisted of a 7-compartment MBT at each end seating 70 and weighing 39 tons 6cwt, an original trailer with 9 compartments (layout one third, six downgraded firsts and two thirds), with all compartments now seating five aside giving a total of 90 and weighing 27 tons 1cwt and the new trailer with 120 seats in 10 compartments and weighing 28 tons. Overall length of these units was 245' 0" and they weighed 133 tons 13cwt and seated 350 third.

These units retained their ‘Central’ type motorbogies with MV339 motors when augmented, thought the motors were progressively replaced by the EE 339 variety during the early 1950s during routine running gear overhauls at Slade Green. They were reclassified as Second Class only from 3rd June 1956, the vehicles then being classified as MBS and TS.

These units were withdrawn between 1960 and early 1962 when replaced by a batch of new BR type 4 EPB units and sent to Newhaven for scrapping shortly after withdrawal following removal of electrical equipment and motors at Strawberry Hill. The augmentation trailers were usually removed when units were moved from Strawberry Hill to Newhaven en-route at Gatwick, these coaches then being moved between Gatwick and Micheldever between two withdrawn motorcoaches 8420 and 8473, known as ‘4327‘.

Most were stored for some time at either Micheldever or on the closed Didcot, Newbury and Southampton (DNS) line near Winchester Junction, but very few of these coaches saw further service as their wooden roofs made them non-standard, and most were subsequently also moved to Newhaven for scrapping in 1963/4.

Unit formations were as follows, the position of the additional trailer is shown in a consistent position relative to the motorcoaches, but the actual trailers may well have been transposed. The date of formation is shown beneath the unit number.

 

Unit

Old no.

MBT

TT
(9-comp.)

TT
(10-comp.)

MBT

Withdrawn

Diag. No.

 

661

761

763

692

 

4300
Dec-45

1285

8127

9435

10384

8128
888322

19-Apr-58

4301
Dec-45

1286

8129

9436

10383
945723

8130

17-Dec-60

4302
Nov-45

1287

8131

9437

10381
959724

8132

28-Jan-61

4303
Oct-45

1288

8133

9438

10371

8134

13-Feb-60

4304
Mar-46

1289

8135

9439

1039725

8136

4-Jun-60

4305
Dec-45

1290

8137

9440

10382

8138

27-May-61

4306
Jan-46

1291

8139

9441

10388

8140

9-Apr-60

4307
Oct-45

1292

8141

9442

10374

8142
8155

16-Apr-60

4308
Nov-45

1293

8143

9443
1035726

10380

8144

20-Jan-62

4309
Oct-45

1294

8145

9444
1037227

10369

8146

2-May-60

4310
Oct-45

1295

8147

9445

10372
944428

8148
8142
8148
8128

14-May-60

4311
Nov-45

1296

8149

9446

10379

8150

8-Apr-61

4312
Nov-45

1297

8151

9447

10378

8152

11-Jun-60

4313
Nov-45

1298

8153

9448

10376
1145629

8154

28-May-60

4314
Jan-46

1299

8155
8142
8148
8142

9449

10389

8156

29-Apr-61

Diag. No.

 

661

753

2013

661

 

4315
Aug-45

1300

8157

9450

10357
944330

8158

19-Nov-60

4316
Sep-45

1301

8159
8099
31
8159
8164
8159

9451

10366
10367
10366

8160

26-Mar-60

4317
Feb-46

1302

8161

9452

10390

8162

26-Mar-60

4318
Sep-45

1303

8163

9453

10367
10366
10367

8164
8159
8164

30-Jan-60

4319
Aug-45

1304

8165

9454

10355

8166

9-Jul-60

4320
Jan-46

1305

8167

941232
959333

10387

8168

2-Apr-60

4321
Dec-45

1306

8169

9456

10385

8170

2-Jan-60

4322
Oct-45

1307

8171

9457
1038334

10375

8172

4-Nov-61

4323
Nov-45

1308

8173

9458

10377

8174

15-Apr-61

4324
Jan-46

1309

8175

9459
1038535

10386

8176

4-Nov-61

4325
Oct-45

1310

8177

9460

10370

8178
8753
36
8178

7-May-60

 

 

 

Notes:

 

 

 

30 = 9 Compt. ‘short’ TT, Diagram 753.

31 = 7½ Compt. ‘1915’ LSWR coach, Diagram 676.

32 = 10 Compt. ‘1915’ LSWR coach, Diagram 769.

33 = 9 Compt. TT, Diagram 758.

34 = 10 Compt. augmentation trailer, Diagram 2013.

35 = 10 Compt. augmentation trailer, Diagram 2013.

36 = 7 Compt. ‘1915’ LSWR coach, Diagram 698.

 

 

Individual Unit Notes
4300- 4325

4300

Unit damaged in sidelong collision with parcels train at Gloucester Road Jct 4‑Mar-58 and three coaches badly damaged and unit withdrawn 19‑Apr-58. MBS 8128 stored under repair until used in 4310 from Nov-58, replaced by 8883 (ex 4506) and all coaches scrapped at Newhaven May-58.

4301

Unit to Strawberry Hill for stripping 13‑Dec-60 and withdrawn 17‑Dec-60. TS 10383 exchanged with 9457 (ex 4322) and all coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 30‑Jan-61.

4302

Unit to Strawberry Hill for stripping 1‑Nov-60 and TS 10381 exchanged with 9597 (ex 4335) and unit withdrawn 28‑Jan-61, both TSs scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 28‑Feb-61. Both MBSs 8131 and 8132 retained as depot shunting unit at Wimbledon Park until c.Nov-61 when scrapped at Newhaven Dec-61 after being used to move damaged 4 LAV trailer 12001 (ex 2926) from Hassocks.

4303

Unit withdrawn 13‑Feb-60 and TS 10371 stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 26‑Feb-60. TS 10371 also later scrapped there c.Apr-64.

4304

Unit only one in batch with steel-roofed augmentation trailer. Unit withdrawn 4‑Jun-60 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 7‑Jun-60. TS 10397 subsequently converted to De-Icing trailer and renumbered DS 70086. Remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 16‑Jul-60.

4305

Unit to Strawberry Hill for stripping c.23‑May-61 and withdrawn 27‑May-61. TS 10382 stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there Jun-61. TS 10382 also later scrapped there Jul-63.

4306

Unit withdrawn 9‑Apr-60 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 26‑Apr-60. TS 10388 subsequently stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven arriving there c.7‑May-60. TS 10388 also later scrapped there Jan-64.

4307

Unit slightly damaged in collision with 4314 (where?) Feb-47 and MBT 8142 exchanged with 8155 (ex 4314). Unit to Strawberry Hill for stripping 13‑Apr-60 and withdrawn 16‑Apr-60. TS 10374 subsequently stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven May-60. TS 10374 also later scrapped there Dec-63.

4308

Unit withdrawn Nov-60 and TS 9443 exchanged with TS 10357 and unit reinstated Dec-60. TS 10357 was a further wooden roofed augmentation trailer seating 120 (ex 4315). Overall unit length then increased to 249' 0" and weight to 134 tons 12cwt and unit then seated 380 second. Unit withdrawn 20‑Jan-62 and stored at Micheldever, both TSs 10357 and 10380 then scrapped at Newhaven c.Sep-63. Both MBSs moved to Eastleigh 28‑Feb-68 thence to Preston Park for storage. MBS 8144 later scrapped at York though it was partly dismantled for spares at Preston Park c.Apr-71 (after Dec-77), whilst 8143 claimed as part of the ‘National Collection’ and stored at Preston Park until 3‑Dec-77 when moved to York National Railway Museum (with remains of 8144) for restoration to near original condition. Coach subsequently displayed at the NRM at York, and later, from 2005, at the NRM annex at Shildon.

4309

TS 9444 damaged (location unknown) and exchanged with wooden roofed augmentation trailer 10372 (ex 4310) c.Apr-58, this coach seating 120, unit then 249' 0" long and weighed 134 tons 12cwt and seated 380 second. Unit withdrawn 21‑May-60 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 24‑May-60. TSs 10369 and 10372 both subsequently stored at Micheldever. Both MBSs 8145 and 8146 scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 14‑Jun-60, both TSs 10369 and 10372 also later scrapped there Oct-63.

4310

MBT 8148 temporarily exchanged with 8142 (ex 4314) Mar‑55 to Jul-55 (reason unknown). Unit damaged c.Apr-58 and out of use for repairs to MBS 8147 and TS 9445. MBS 8148 to 4339 and 10372 to 4309 and replaced by damaged 9444 (ex 4309) a 9 compartment ‘short’ trailer seating 90, and MBS 8128 (ex spare from 4300 after repairs). Unit back to traffic c.Nov-58 then seating 320 second and with an overall length of 243' 0" and weight of 132 tons 14cwt. Unit to Strawberry Hill for stripping 10‑May-60 and withdrawn 14‑May-60 and all coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 20‑May-60.

4311

Unit to Strawberry Hill for stripping 11‑Nov-60 and TS 10379 withdrawn 15‑Nov-60 and subsequently stored at Micheldever. Unit withdrawn 8‑Apr-61 and three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 7‑Jun-61. TS 10379 also later scrapped there Jul-63.

4312

Unit withdrawn 11‑Jun-60 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 21‑Jun-60. TS 10378 subsequently stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 16‑Jul-60. TS 10378 also later scrapped there Oct-63.

4313

Unit temporarily disbanded Aug-46 (trailer damaged?) and MBT 8153 to 1685, MBT 8154 to 4149. Possible motorcoaches replaced by damaged 8206 (ex 1685) and 8787 (ex 4149) whilst all vehicles under repair. Unit back to traffic in original formation Jun-47. Unit slightly damaged in collision with 4110 at Victoria 8‑Dec-49 and TT 10376 exchanged with 11456 (ex 4594) Dec-49, this coach a 9 compartment all‑steel ‘pseudo composite’ seating 108, reducing overall unit capacity to 338 third. Unit withdrawn 28‑May-60 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 31‑May-60. TS 11456 subsequently stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 14‑Jun-60. TS 11456 converted for use in 4 EPB unit and to 5008 from Apr-61, renumbered 15080 from Sep-61.

4314

Unit slightly damaged in collision with 4307 (where?) Feb-47 and MBT 8155 exchanged with 8142 (ex 4307). MBT 8142 temporarily exchanged with 8148 (ex 4310) Mar-55 to Jul-55 (reason unknown). Unit slightly damaged (where?) and withdrawn 29‑Apr-61 and TS 10389 removed from unit whilst stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven Nov-61. TS 10389 also later scrapped there Oct-63.

4315

Unit withdrawn 19‑Nov-60 and TS 10357 exchanged with TS 9443 (ex 4308), and all coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 30‑Jan-61.

4316

Unit damaged Aug-52 (where?) and MBT 8159 temporarily replaced from Oct-52 by 8099 (ex withdrawn 4233) a 7½ compartment ‘1915’ LSWR vehicle seating 75. Unit then seated 355 and was longer than standard at 249' 0" and now weighed 136 tons 7cwt. MBT 8099 withdrawn 29‑May-54 and bodywork broken‑up at Longhedge by 4‑Sep-54, underframe used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicle 14305 (5153) Jan-55. MBT 8159 returned to unit though still under repair and unit out of use until Jun-54. MBT 8159 and TT 10366 both temporarily exchanged with 8164 and 10367 (ex 4318) from Jul-55 until Mar-56 (reason unknown) and unit out of use again until reverted to original formation. Unit withdrawn 26‑Mar-60 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 29‑Mar-60. TS 10366 subsequently stored at Micheldever, remaining coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 22‑Apr-60. TS 10366 also later scrapped there Jan-64.

4317

Unit to Strawberry Hill for stripping 22‑Mar-60 and withdrawn 26‑Mar-60. TS 10390 subsequently stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 22‑Apr-60. TS 10390 also later scrapped there Jan-64.

4318

MBT 8163 slightly damaged in Herne Hill collision 6‑Nov-47 but repaired. MBT 8164 and TT 10367 both temporarily exchanged with 8159 and 10366 (ex 4316) between Jul-55 and Mar-56 (reason unknown). Unit withdrawn 30‑Jan-60 and TS 10367 stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 23‑Feb-60. TS 10367 also later scrapped there c.Apr-64.

4319

Unit withdrawn 9‑Jul-60 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 12‑Jul-60 and TS 10355 stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches to Newhaven Aug-60 where 9454 removed for scrapping, both MBSs returning to Strawberry Hill as match vehicles for further movements, though both were also scrapped at Newhaven shortly afterwards. TS 10355 also later scrapped at Newhaven Oct-63.

4320

Unit non-standard when augmented as included a 10 compartment trailer 9412 from ‘1915’ LSWR unit 1283 after war damage, this coach originally seating 40 first and 50 third, now altered to 100 third. Overall unit capacity was then 360 and unit was 247' 0" long and weighed 135 tons 4cwt. TT 9412 to 4416 c.Jun-50 and replaced with 9593 (ex disbanded 4350), a 9 compartment coach seating 90. Unit capacity then reverted to standard though overall length remained the same and weight now 134 tons. Unit withdrawn 2‑Apr-60 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 5‑Apr-60 TS 10387 subsequently stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 22‑Apr-60. TS 10387 also later scrapped there Jan-64.

4321

Unit withdrawn 20‑Jan-60 and to Eastleigh c22‑Jan-60 where TS 10385 removed and stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches to Strawberry Hill 2‑Feb-60 for stripping then scrapped at Newhaven Feb-60. TS 10385 later used in 4324 from Feb-61.

4322

TS 9457 exchanged with 10383, a further wooden roofed augmentation trailer seating 120 (ex 4301) c.17‑Dec-60. Overall unit length then increased to 249' 0" and weight to 134 tons 12cwt, and unit then seated 380 second. Unit out of use and sent to Chart Leacon 14‑Jun-61 for possible use as a staff train, but not so used and returned to Wimbledon Park and condemned 4‑Nov-61. Both trailers stored on DNS line and MBSs both scrapped at Newhaven Jun-62. Both trailers also later scrapped there Oct-63.

4323

Unit withdrawn 15‑Apr-61 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping c.18‑Apr-61 and TS 10377 stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 18‑May-61. TS 10377 also later scrapped there Jul-63.

4324

TS 9459 withdrawn 18‑Mar-61 and scrapped (probably at Newhaven) Mar-61. Replaced by 10385, a further wooden roofed augmentation trailer seating 120 (ex store at Micheldever from withdrawn 4321). Overall unit length then increased to 249' 0" and weight to 134 tons 12cwt, and unit then seated 380. Unit withdrawn 4‑Nov-61 and both trailers stored at Micheldever, both MBSs scrapped at Newhaven Jun-62. Both trailers also later scrapped there, 10385 arriving 3‑Sep-63 and 10386 Dec-63.

4325

MBT 8178 temporarily exchanged with 8753 (ex 4160) from c.Sep-50 until c.Feb-51, (reason unknown). This coach a similar 7 compartment MBT with ‘wedge end’ cab, though of standard length so unit longer at 249' 6" for duration of this change and weighed 135 tons 17cwt. Unit withdrawn 7‑May-60 and TS 10370 stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven May-60. TS 10370 also later scrapped there Dec-63.

 

Back to Top

 


Units 4326 ‑ 4354

This batch of units consisted of the twenty-nine 1925 contractor built units 1496 ‑ 1524 delivered for the Eastern Section electrification. These units differed from the ‘Guildford and Dorking’ units by being mounted on 62' 0" underframes giving an additional compartment in each coach, having a much flatter cab end design and being fitted with DK 77 motors in ‘Eastern’ motorbogies. The motorcoaches had been built by the Metropolitan Carriage Wagon and Finance Co. Ltd. and the trailers by the Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Co. Ltd. The same batch of ‘all-steel’ augmentation trailers in the 10346 ‑ 10400 series being delivered for the 4300 ‑ 4325 batch were also used to make these units up to four coaches, these being ordered to H.O. 1094 subdivided in to three batches, H.O. 1094A for 10346 ‑ 10375, H.O. 1094B for 10376 ‑ 10390 and H.O. 1094C for the steel roofed coaches 10391 ‑ 10400. These coaches seated 120 third in 10 compartments and were to Diagram 2013 and weighed 28 tons. Once again, they were inserted into the next available unit due for revarnishing resulting in them not being allocated in any sort of number order within the batch.

Like units 4300 ‑ 4325 this batch were augmented with the units retaining their existing numerical sequence, unit 1496 becoming 4326, 1497 becoming 4327 etc. but units were dealt with as they became due for revarnishing and were not augmented in number order. Nine of the augmentation trailers used in this batch were from the final ten built with steel roofs. The three car units augmented in this programme consisted of two identical 8 compartment MBTs seating 80 and weighing 41 tons, whilst the TC had 7 first class compartments flanked by a third class one at each end and after the wartime downgrading these seated 90 third (the former firsts now seating five aside) and weighed about 27 tons. In their augmented form therefore, these units were 257' 5" long and weighed 137½ tons and seated 370 third overall. Conversion to 4 SUB took place between June 1945 and April 1946.

Unit 4350 had a non‑standard MBT when formed, this unit was subsequently disbanded and the standard MBT used to replace an accident damaged one in 4332, the two displaced MBTs then having their underframes recovered for use in the 4 EPB building programme. From May 1952 these units had their ‘Eastern’ motorbogies and DK 77 motors replaced by bogies of the ‘Central’ type fitted with EE 339 motors, the displaced ‘Eastern’ bogies then being used, refitted with EE 507 motors in new 4 EPB units in the 5001 ‑ 5053 series then under construction. The DK 77 motors were removed at Slade Green and the unit hauled to either Eastleigh or Lancing for underframe modifications and a ‘Central’ type motorbogie was fitted. They were then hauled to Wimbledon Park where EE 339 motors were installed. Approximately one unit per month was dealt with at both Eastleigh and Lancing, all being completed by July 1953. Their buffers were also changed to the heavier self-contained type about this time.

From 3rd June 1956 the units became Second Class only, the coaches then being reclassified as MBS and TS. All were withdrawn between 1960 and 1962 following delivery of the first batch of BR type 4 EPB units, being scrapped at Newhaven after component recovery at Strawberry Hill. The all-steel trailers were removed prior to scrapping of the 1925 vehicles and many were stored either at Micheldever or on the closed Didcot, Newbury and Southampton line near Winchester Jct. Most of the wooden roofed vehicle did not however see any further service and were also scrapped, usually at Newhaven, the steel‑roofed coaches were all reused either in 4 SUB or 4 EPB units or converted to De-Icing trailers.

Unit formations were as follows, the position of the additional trailer is shown in a consistent position relative to the motorcoaches, but the actual trailers may well have been transposed. The date of formation is shown beneath the unit number. Steel-roofed augmentation trailers are shown with ‘*’ after coach number.

 

Unit

Old no.

MBT

TT
(9-comp.)

TT
(10-comp.)

MBT

Withdrawn

Diag. No.

 

670

758

2013

670

 

4326
Sep-45

1496

8417

9583

10362

8418

6-May-61

4327
Mar-46

1497

8419

9595

10394*

8420

2-Jan-60

4328
Jul-45

1498

8421

9591

10351

8422

6-Aug-60

4329
Jun-45

1499

8423
8428

9584

10346

8424

20-Jan-62

4330
Sep-45

1500

8426

9603

10368

8425

20-Jan-62

4331
Aug-45

1501

8427

9604

10361
10195*

8428
8423

30-Jul-60

4332
Jun-45

1502

8429
8241
37
8465

9598

10348

8430

27-Aug-60

4333
Mar-46

1503

8431
8460

9606

10398*
10449*38
10373

8432

18-Nov-61

4334
Aug-45

1504

8434

9607

10356

8433

13-Aug-60

4335
Feb-46

1505

8435

9597
1038139

10391*
10376

8436

20-Jan-62

4336
Sep-45

1506

8438

9588

10365

8437

14-Nov-59

4337
Sep-45

1507

8440

9587

10364

8439

20-Jan-62

4338
Aug-45

1508

8441

9596

10359

8442

11-Nov-61

4339
Jul-45

1509

8443

9600

10352

8444
8719
40
814841

3-Dec-60

4340
Mar-46

1510

8446

9589

10396*

8445

16-Jul-60

4341
Aug-45

1511

8448

9599

10354

8447

30-Apr-60

4342
Aug-45

1512

8450

9582

10358

8449

18-Jun-60

4343
Jun-45

1513

8452

9594

10347

8451

22-Apr-61

4344
Mar-46

1514

8454

9592

10395*

8453

23-Jul-60

4345
Feb-46

1515

8455

9608
1039942

10392*

8456

11-Apr-59

4346
Jul-45

1516

8457

9586

10349

8458

2-Dec-61

4347
Aug-45

1517

8460
8431

9590

10360

8459

20-May-61

4348
Mar-46

1518

8462

9580
1035243

10393*
10361

8461

20-Jan-62

4349
Apr-46

1519

8463

9581

10400*

8464

2-Jul-60

Diag. No.

 

 

 

 

662

 

4350
Oct-45

1520

8465

9593

10373

848644

c.Jun-50

Diag. No.

 

 

 

 

670

 

4351
Mar-46

1521

8467

9601

10399*
960845

8468

27-Aug-60

4352
Aug-45

1522

8469

9602

10353

8470

25-Nov-61

4353
Sep-45

1523

8472

9585

10363

8471

27-Aug-60

4354
Jul-45

1524

8473

9605

10350

8474

5-Dec-59

Notes:

37 = Ex SECR conversion on Ashford frame, Diagram 662.

38 = TS Diagram 2014.

39 = 10 Compt. augmentation trailer, Diagram 2013.

40 = Ex LBSC conversion on lengthened ‘AC’ underframe, Diagram 678.

41 = 7 Compt. MBS with ‘wedge end’ cab, Diagram 661.

42 = 10 Compt. augmentation trailer, Diagram 2013.

43 = 10 Compt. augmentation trailer, Diagram 2013.

44 = Ex SECR conversion on Ashford frame.

45 = 9 Compt. TS, Diagram 758.

                                                                                                 

 

 

Individual Unit Notes
4235- 4354

4235

10 Compt. TT 9344 exchanged with 9376 (ex 4154) (date unknown) and unit now weighed 134 tons 6cwt.

Unit withdrawn 15-Aug-53 and bodywork broken‑up at Lancing? by 5-Sep-53. Underframes used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicles: 8216 for 14222 (5111) Mar‑54, 8830 for 14214 (5107) Mar‑54, 9218 for 15186 and 9376 for 15236 (both 5108) Mar‑54.

4326

Unit withdrawn 6‑May‑61 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 9‑May‑61 and TS 10362 stored at Micheldever, remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 18‑May‑61. TS 10377 also later scrapped there Jul‑63.

4327

Unit withdrawn 2‑Jan‑60 and TS 10394 stored at Micheldever, TS 9595 scrapped at Newhaven Feb‑60. MBS 8420 used (with 8473 ex 4354) as match vehicle in connection with movements of augmentation trailers from withdrawn units between Gatwick, Lancing and Micheldever. MBS 8419 stored and also scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 25‑Jul‑60. 8420 renumbered DS70057 11‑Feb‑61 as part of M&EE test unit 15. TS 10394 later converted to 4 EPB trailer 15228 c.May‑63 for unit 5150. DS70057 subsequently scrapped by Cashmore, Newport Jun‑70, moving from Micheldever 28‑May‑70.

4328

Unit withdrawn 6-Aug‑60 and TS 10351 stored at Micheldever. TS 9591 scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 20-Sep‑61. Both MBSs used as match vehicles to convey a pair of augmentation trailers to Micheldever, then stored until used in conversion to De‑Icing motorcoaches at Stewarts Lane Oct-60, 8421 renumbered DS70103, 8422 renumbered DS70102, both for unit 99. TS 10351 later overhauled and used in set 900 (later 7‑TC 701) from Jul‑63.

4329

MBT 8423 exchanged with 8428 (ex 4331) Sep‑51 (reason unknown).

Unit was subsequently the last pre-war 4 SUB unit to run in traffic 12‑Jan‑62 and withdrawn 20‑Jan‑62. TS 9584 removed at Strawberry Hill Jan‑62 and subsequently scrapped at Newhaven Jun‑62, TS 10346 formed as part of ‘4352’ and along with both MBSs 8424 and 8428 then stored on DNS line from early 1962 until early 1963 when all moved to Fullerton and onwards to Micheldever. TS 10346 later overhauled and used in set 900 (later 7 TC 701) from Jul‑63. Both MBSs 8424 and 8428 subsequently formed around withdrawn TSs 10388/90/66/87 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping 27‑Nov‑63 before moving to Newhaven for scrapping 1‑Jan‑64.

4330

MBT 8425 damaged in collision (with what?) at London Bridge 18‑Nov‑55 and unit out of use until repairs completed Jan‑57.

Unit withdrawn 20‑Jan‑62 and stored at Micheldever, all coaches later scrapped at Newhaven Nov‑63.

4331

TS 10361 to 4348 Aug‑51 and MBT 8428 exchanged with 8423 (ex 4329) Sep‑51 (reason unknown) and unit out of use until 10361 replaced with 10195 (ex 4588) in Dec‑51.

Unit withdrawn 30‑Jul‑60 and TS 10195 stored at Micheldever. TS 9604 scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 10‑Aug‑60. Both MBSs used as match vehicles to convey a pair of augmentation trailers to Micheldever, then stored at Strawberry Hill until used in conversion to De‑Icing motor coaches (8423 renumbered DS70107, 8427 renumbered DS70106) both for unit 101. TS 10195 later converted to EPB trailer 15079 in Jun‑61 for unit 5302.

4332

MBT 8429 damaged in collision with 4168 at Woolwich Arsenal 18‑Nov‑48 and withdrawn. Replaced by similar 8241 (ex 1408), with SECR bodywork conversion from c.Jan‑49. This coach withdrawn May‑50 and bodywork scrapped at Lancing? and underframe used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicle 14020 (5010) Jan‑52. Replaced Apr‑50 by 8465 (ex disbanded 4350).

Unit withdrawn 27‑Aug‑60 and TS 10348 stored at Micheldever, TS 9598 scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 20‑Sep‑61. Both MBSs stored until used in conversion to De‑Icing motor coaches (8430 renumbered DS70104, 8465 renumbered DS70105) both for unit 100. TS 10348 scrapped at Newhaven Oct‑63.

4333

Unit damaged during 1951 (where?) and to Lancing for repairs. TS 10398 removed from unit c.Oct-51 for conversion to EPB and used in the prototype unit 5001 from Nov‑51; being renumbered 15001 early in 1952. Unit out of use and MBT 8431 exchanged with 8460 (ex 4347) c.Feb‑52 (reason unknown).

Unit back to traffic May‑52 with TS 10449 (ex 4569). This coach then exchanged with 10373 (ex 4607) May‑60 to remove non-standard wooden-roofed coach from later build all‑steel batch of units.

Unit withdrawn 18‑Nov‑61 and TS 9606 removed at Strawberry Hill, remaining three coaches then stored at Micheldever. TS 9606 scrapped (probably at Newhaven). TS 10373 also later scrapped there, arriving 3‑Sep‑63. (disposal of MBSs uncertain, at Chart Leacon Sep‑63). These later noted lettered ‘ME(T) Chart Leacon’ and numbered as ‘Internal User’ vehicles IU081812/3 stored at Cosham in May /June 1966, later moving from Eastleigh to Micheldever 13‑Jun‑66.

4334

Unit withdrawn 13-Aug‑60 and TS 10356 stored at Micheldever until reinstated 28‑Jan‑61 and formed into 4108 from Jan‑61. TS 9607 scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 20-Sep‑61. Both MBSs stored until used in conversion to De‑Icing motorcoaches at Stewarts Lane Oct‑60 (8433 renumbered DS70096, 8434 renumbered DS70097) both for unit 96.

4335

Unit damaged early in 1952 (where?) and to Lancing for repair where TS 10391 removed from unit May‑52 for conversion to EPB and used in 5010 from Jun‑52, renumbered as 15010. Remainder of 4335 out of use until 10391 replaced by 10376 (ex 4594) from Oct‑52. When released unit modified with ‘Central’ motorbogie and EE 339 motors. TS 9597 withdrawn Dec‑60 and scrapped at Newhaven (arriving there 28‑Feb‑61) replaced by TS 10381 (ex 4302), unit now seating 400 and weighing 138 tons.

Unit withdrawn 20‑Jan‑62 and stored at Micheldever. All coaches scrapped at Newhaven (arriving there 3‑Sep‑63) also including withdrawn TS coaches 10373 and 10385.

4336

Unit withdrawn 14‑Nov‑59 and TS 10365 stored at Micheldever. Remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven Dec‑60. TS 10365 also later scrapped there Dec‑63.

4337

Unit withdrawn 20‑Jan‑62 and TS 10364 stored on DNS line (as part of ‘4348‘). Remaining three coaches stored at Peckham Rye until 1963 for use in connection with some electrical testing at substations, (eventual disposal unknown, probably to Newhaven). [Unit at Barnham mid-1963 then Farnham by Jul‑63]. TS 10364 also scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 6‑Aug‑63.

4338

Unit withdrawn 11‑Nov‑61 and TS 10359 to 4 LAV 2926. TS 9596 scrapped at Newhaven Jun‑62, both MBSs stored at Micheldever until formed around withdrawn TS coaches 10374 /10350 /10354 /10365 and to Strawberry Hill for stripping before moving to Newhaven Dec‑63 for scrapping.

4339

Unit damaged in collision with 2 HAL 2680 at Chatham 5‑Jan‑56 and MBT 8444 damaged and withdrawn 28‑Jan‑56; scrapped at Longhedge 18‑Dec‑56. Unit disbanded but reinstated from Aug‑56 with MBS 8719 (ex 4547), an ex LBSC conversion weighing 39½ tons, overall unit weight now being 136 tons. This coach then to 4506 (2) from c.Apr‑58 and replaced with 8148 (ex 4310), a 7 compartment 56' 11" underframe coach weighing 39 tons 6cwt, giving revised unit totals of 360 second, overall weight of 135 tons 16cwt and overall length of 252' 3".

Unit withdrawn 3‑Dec‑60 and TS 10352 to 4348; remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven Mar‑61.

4340

Unit withdrawn 16-Jul‑60 and TS 10396 stored at Micheldever. TS 9589 scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 10-Aug‑60. Both MBSs stored from 19‑Jul‑60 at Strawberry Hill until used in conversion to De‑Icing motorcoaches at Stewarts Lane in August (8445 renumbered DS70091, 8446 renumbered DS70090) both for unit 93. TS 10396 later reinstated from 14‑Sep‑63 and used in 4115.

4341

Unit withdrawn 30‑Apr‑60 and TS 10354 stored at Micheldever. Remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven c.Jun‑60. TS 10354 also later scrapped there Dec‑63.

4342

Unit fitted with experimental air horns early in 1952. Unit withdrawn 18‑Jun‑60 and TS 10358 stored at Micheldever. TS 9582 scrapped at Newhaven Jul‑60. TS 10358 also scrapped there Oct‑63. Both MBSs used as ‘towing unit’ at Wimbledon Park Depot, retaining ‘unit number’ 4342 but given coach numbers in ‘Internal User’ series; 8449 becoming IU 081269 and 8450 becoming IU 081270. This use continued until about Dec-69 when unit withdrawn. These vehicles eventually scrapped at Wimbledon Park Dec‑70.

4343

Unit withdrawn 22‑Apr‑61 and TS 10347 stored at Micheldever. Remaining three coaches all scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 18‑May‑61. TS 10347 also later scrapped there Jul‑63.

4344

Unit withdrawn 23‑Jul‑60 and TS 10395 stored at Micheldever. TS 9592 scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 10‑Aug‑60. Both MBSs stored from 26‑Jul‑60 at Strawberry Hill until Sep‑60 when used in conversion to De‑Icing motorcoaches at Stewarts Lane (8453 renumbered DS70094, 8454 renumbered DS70095) both for unit 95. TS 10395 later converted to EPB trailer 15083 in Nov‑65 for unit 5262.

4345

Unit withdrawn 11‑Apr‑59 and TS 9608 exchanged with 10399 (ex 4351). All four then converted to De‑Icing vehicles Sep-59 at Lancing all being renumbered (8455 becoming DS70045, 8456 becoming DS70044) both for unit 92, 10392 becoming DS70050 and 10399 becoming DS70051.

4346

Unit damaged early in 1952 and released from repairs at Eastleigh with a ‘Central’ motorbogie and EE 339 motors.

Unit withdrawn 2‑Dec-61 and TS 10349 stored on DNS line (as part of ‘4352’). MBS 8458 scrapped at Newhaven c.Mar‑62 (with damaged DS70044 ex 92), TS 9586 scrapped at Newhaven Jun‑62, MBS 8457 quickly converted to De‑Icing motorcoach at Stewarts Lane in December 1961 and renumbered DS70173 to replace fire damaged DS70044 in unit 92. TS 10349 later overhauled and used in set 900 (later 7 TC 701) from Jul‑63.

4347

MBT 8460 exchanged with 8431 (ex 4333) c.Mar‑52 (reason unknown).

Unit withdrawn 20‑May‑61 and TS 10360 stored at Micheldever. Remaining three coaches scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 7-Jun‑61. TS 10360 also later scrapped there Jul‑63.

4348

TS 10393 to 4729 Aug‑51 and replaced by 10361 (ex 4331). Unit fitted with experimental air horns early in 1952. TS 9580 withdrawn Dec‑60 and scrapped at Newhaven, arriving there 28‑Feb-61, and replaced by a further augmentation trailer, TS 10352 (ex 4339). In this form unit seated 400 second and weighed 138 tons.

Unit withdrawn 20‑Jan‑62 and stored on DNS line (also including 10364 ex 4337) until taken to Fullerton early in 1963, then via Micheldever and Strawberry Hill for final stripping on to Newhaven for scrapping, arriving there 6‑Aug‑63.

4349

Unit withdrawn 2‑Jul‑60 and TS 9581 scrapped at Newhaven that month. Remaining three coaches all converted to De‑Icing vehicles, the MBSs at Stewarts Lane Aug-60, and renumbered (8463 renumbered DS70092, 8464 renumbered DS70093) both for unit 94, TS 10400 arrived Lancing by Aug‑60 and converted and renumbered DS 70087 from Nov‑60.

4350

When formed, unit included MBT 8486 from 1925 ex SECR bodywork conversion batch of ‘Eastern Section’ units.

Unit disbanded c.Jun‑50 and bodywork of MBT 8486 scrapped at Lancing and underframe used in construction of new 4 EPB vehicle 14017 (5009) May‑52. MBT 8465 to 4332, TS 9593 to 4320 and TS 10373 to new 4607.

4351

TS 10399 exchanged with TS 9608 (ex 4345) Apr‑59. Unit then seated 340 second and weighed 13