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London, Brighton & South Coast Railway
Coulsdon & Wallington ‘CW’ Units
‘Elevated Electric’ AC stock
& associated Pull-Push stock

 

Around the turn of the century, the London, Brighton & South Coast Railway (LBSCR) were concerned about falling traffic receipts in the suburban area and also wished to make economies in the costs of working their system. So, they began investigations into the feasibility of working their trains electrically. Electric operation of trains was now becoming quite practical and was indeed already in operation on a number of railways abroad and the LSWR had commenced limited electric operation in 1898 in the Waterloo & City Railway tube line.

The construction of further electrified tube railways in London and the parallel electrification of some competing tramway routes also spurred these investigations by the LBSCR and the company obtained an Act of Parliament in July 1903 to enable it to electrify parts of its system. Philip Dawson was retained as a consulting electrical engineer to investigate the most suitable system and from an early stage it was agreed that the system chosen should be suitable for use on possible future extensions of the system beyond the suburban area. Dawson took into account an earlier report to the LBSCR board presented in 1902 by the Chief Engineer which pointed out a number of disadvantages of the third rail system for the LBSCR network and presented a report to the board in July 1904 recommending the adoption of a single‑phase alternating current system at nominal 6,700 volts using overhead contact wire. The system was envisaged as suitable for the whole suburban network and with the possibility of later extensions should this be required.

Dawson was instructed to prepare plans for electrification of the lines between Battersea Park and Peckham Rye via the South London line and contracts were let in April 1905, awarded to the Allgemeine Elektricitats-Gesellschaft (AEG) of Berlin; this company sub‑contracting the overhead line work to Messrs R. W. Blackwell & Company of London, who in turn sub-contracted further with British Thomson‑Houston Co providing switchgear and Johnson & Philips also Siemens Bros providing cabling. Soon after these contracts were let, the LBSCR decided to extend the electrification scheme from Peckham Rye into London Bridge and from Battersea Park into Victoria so that the whole South London line route was covered, and further contracts were let to cover these extensions in March 1906. The rolling stock provision for the line was awarded to the Metropolitan Amalgamated Carriage & Wagon Company of Birmingham.

 

The Overhead

Power for the system was obtained from the London Electric Supply Corporation's generating station at Deptford and supplied at nominal 6,700 volts, 25 hertz via cables direct to a switch room at Queens Road, Peckham and a distribution room at Peckham Rye. Power was then distributed via lineside cables to switch cabins located at each station which supplied the overhead equipment. Wherever possible the current supply arrangements allowed one line to be isolated without having to isolate the adjacent track. The overhead lines were suspended at a contact height of 16' above rail level, though this was reduced under certain low bridges to 13' 9" (where there were ‘Dead’ sections) whilst in the vicinity of the platforms at Victoria and London Bridge the height was raised to 19' 9" to give greater clearances as staff still had to go onto carriage roofs to lamp oil lit stock or light gas lamps in some gas lit stock.

The contact wire was suspended from two catenaries; these being located one to each side and away from the centre line of the track to avoid damage to the insulators from the blast of locomotive chimneys. The catenaries were made of 12-strand galvanised steel and the droppers from these to the contact wire were formed as a stiff ‘V’ shape and were clipped to the contact wire by phosphor bronze clips. Droppers were spaced every 10' and held the copper contact wire off centre above the track with alternate deviations of 9" from the track centre line; this zig-zagging of the contact wire was designed to prevent the wire wearing a groove into the bow collectors of the trains.

The structures supporting the catenaries were mostly steel lattice gantries, the catenaries passing above these structures and supported on porcelain insulators, though there were some variations in the vicinity of overbridges. The overhead gantries were usually spaced about 150' apart, though some gaps were as small as 50' and the longest was 210' owing to siting difficulties.

Minimum clearance around the contact wire was specified at 3", though 4" was normally allowed, and the loading gauge height of the LBSCR was set at 13' 6" so the minimum height of the contact wire had to be set at 13' 9". As a consequence, there was a need for ‘Dead’ sections with the wire at this height under five overbridges on the electrified lines.

 

Extending the System

The success of the LBSCR's overhead electrification of the South London line in 1909 and the lines to Crystal Palace in 1911 and 1912 in attracting additional passengers and economies of working led the LBSCR board to plan for further extensions of the system to cover most of the suburban lines, whilst further tentative plans for extensions to the coast at Brighton & Eastbourne were also investigated.

Plans for the suburban lines were more advanced and the board announced plans early in 1913 to electrify the following lines:

London Bridge to Norwood Jct. via Forest Hill and including the Sydenham Spur to Crystal Palace

Balham Junction to Cheam via both Mitcham Jct. and West Croydon.

Tulse Hill to Streatham Common/Streatham South Jct.

Norwood Jct. to West Croydon.

Norwood Jct./Selhurst to Coulsdon & Smitham Downs (later known as Coulsdon North).

This covered the whole of the suburban system with the exception of the branch line from Sutton to Epsom Downs, Bromley Jct. to Beckenham Jct., the West Croydon to Wimbledon single line and the Wimbledon Loop from Streatham South Jct., this last being joint property with the London & South Western Railway.

Contracts for the electrification work were let, again to the same contractors who had carried out the work on the two previous electrification schemes, namely AEG (Berlin) for the electrification equipment and Metropolitan Carriage, Wagon & Finance Co. Ltd for the rolling stock, though once again some coaches would be supplied from the company's own workshops at Lancing.

Works associated with the scheme in addition to the actual electrification involved provision of a centre turnback siding at Wallington (where it was planned that some electric trains would reverse) and the provision of a centre island platform at Cheam (the line from Sutton having been recently quadrupled in 1911) the electrification being taken through beyond the traffic objective of Sutton to Cheam as there was space to provide turnback facilities at Cheam (which Sutton lacked).

The track layout at the London end of Sutton station was also to be revised with widening to allow parallel access to the Epsom Downs platforms off the West Croydon line and the Epsom platforms off the Mitcham Jct. line, with associated crossovers to allow interworking. Additional siding space for the electric trains was also required, accessible from both Victoria and London Bridge and a site on the Up side at Streatham Hill was identified as suitable.

Work on this scheme commenced quickly during 1913 with early priority given to the Norwood Jct. to Cheam route and much of the overhead equipment was installed between West Croydon and just outside Sutton (the junction remodelling there was still to be carried out), whilst overhead equipment was also erected between Tulse Hill and Streatham South Jct.

 

New Electric Trains

Lancing Works was also given instructions to commence building some of the rolling stock needed; 60 driving trailer composites being ordered and work on these commenced during 1914. However, the outbreak of war in August 1914 brought work on the whole scheme to a halt, having a German contractor for much of the equipment only adding to the difficulties.

Lancing had completed twelve of the driving trailers in 1914 when work was stopped with most of the coaches were stored minus their control equipment. However, two were put into traffic as part of the CP fleet. A further fifteen coaches were then built at Lancing during 1915 and again these were stored, some only partially completed and no further progress was made until December 1919 when work commenced again on a further batch of nine.

These driving trailers differed in one respect from those built earlier for the CP services in that they had one more first and one less third-class compartment, the layout being cab /four first /four third-class compartments. Of the third batch of nine authorised, the last six reverted to the CP layout of three first and five third compartments.

Work on the electrification had still not restarted into 1920 and Lancing were then asked to build a further batch of six driving trailers (to the CW layout) and these batches of forty-two driving trailers (only two of which were in service on the Crystal Palace lines) were then subject to a decision taken to modify them to enable them to be put into traffic as steam hauled stock, this involving fitting them with steam heating equipment and modifying the lighting arrangements to enable them to be lit from dynamos. This work commenced in about September 1920 and apart from the two coaches already in use on AC services, all of the first three batches (of ten, fifteen and nine) went into service for the first time as steam hauled stock, still retaining their intended electric coach numbers.

The final batch of six were built suitable for steam operation and went straight into service as such during the first half of 1921. All these coaches retained their unused driving cabs with the glass replaced by opaque windows as used in toilet compartments.

 

Post-war Electrification Work

Work was finally able to recommence on the electrification scheme late in 1922, the board announcing in August that work would be rapidly proceeded with and that the lines should be in use for electric trains during the following year. Catenary supports began to be installed between Balham and Gloucester Road Jct. almost at once and were completed through to Coulsdon North by late in 1923, though the wiring was not fitted until later in 1924.

The gap between Norwood Fork Jct. and West Croydon was also filled and the reversing siding at Wallington was completed (having lain partly finished since 1914). The major work of remodelling the junctions at Sutton was not carried out until January /February 1925 and the original plans to carry the overhead to Cheam were abandoned, the wires terminating in the Epsom Downs platforms at Sutton, though they extended a short way towards Belmont to allow electric trains to shunt across to the Up line.

All four lines were electrified from Balham through to Purley, though the Main lines were to be rarely used by electric trains south of East Croydon. The overheads were extended a few hundred yards south of Purley on the Local lines, again to allow trains to reverse and bay platforms at South Croydon and some sidings at Purley and East Croydon were also equipped with wires to allow operating flexibility at times of disruption.

However, no further work was carried out on the routes from South Bermondsey Jct. to Norwood Jct. via Forest Hill (along with the Sydenham Spur) or from Streatham South Jct. to Sutton via Mitcham Jct., these parts of the original LBSCR plan then being abandoned. Some of the wiring which had been installed in 1914 between Tulse Hill and Streatham therefore did not have any regular electric services planned to use it. It was then announced by the Southern Railway (who had by now inherited the scheme following the grouping of the railways in 1923 and the winding-up of the LBSCR) at the February 1925 General Meeting that electric services on the lines to Coulsdon & Sutton would begin on 1st March 1925.

 

Power Supplies

Power supplies for the newly electrified lines were again taken from London Electricity Supply Corporation with power being supplied at 6.7kV AC to New Cross Gate where it was stepped-up by two 5000 kVA transformers to 64kV and transmitted in four 32kV lineside cables to a switch cabin at Gloucester Road Jct. where it was stepped down again to nominal 6700kV and distributed via other switch cabins to supply the overhead. Not all this equipment was ready for the planned March opening date in 1925 and the new services did not in fact commence until 1st April 1925, though some trial running had been possible since 11th March 1925.

 

New Electric Services

The new electric services as introduced in April 1925 consisted of a regular 20-minute frequency from Victoria to both Coulsdon North & Sutton commencing at 6am to Coulsdon North and 6 10am to Sutton. This frequency was reduced to ˝ hourly between 11am and 1pm and after 9pm and the last train from Victoria was at 12 10am.

On Saturdays the 20-minute frequency ran until 6pm when it reduced to ˝ hourly whilst on Sundays there was a ˝ hourly service all day. On the Crystal Palace line, two of the three trains each hour from Victoria were extended, one each to East & West Croydon respectively. To work the new services, twenty trains of new stock were required.

 

‘CW’ Rolling Stock

The original LBSCR plans for the rolling stock for these lines is uncertain, whether further similar motor coaches to those used on the Crystal Palace lines were intended is not clear. The enforced wartime delays to the electrification meant that, apart from the driving trailer composites produced at Lancing in 1914, 1915 and 1919, no new stock had been ordered, with none at all from the intended builders Metropolitan Carriage, Wagon & Finance Co. Ltd of Birmingham.

By December 1922, following a review of requirements, the LBSCR was in a position to actually order the rolling stock required and settled on having twenty trains formed of four trailer coaches, two each side of a motor luggage van. These trains were to be formed of a driving trailer third at each end and a trailer composite inside marshalled on each side of the motor luggage van.

However, as forty-two driving trailer composites had already been built at Lancing, and forty of them were now in service as steam hauled coaches, it made sense to use these in the new trains. Had this been done then these coaches could have been used to provide all the composite coaches in the new trains and only forty new driving trailer thirds would need to be built.

However, only twenty were actually converted back to AC operation, the remaining twenty (including the six built to the CP compartment layout) remained in use as steam hauled coaches, never being used in AC trains. [Quite why this was done remains a mystery, though it may have been influenced by restrictions on the overall train lengths of the new stock].

The forty-two coaches already constructed were built to the same dimensions as the earlier CP stock, namely 8' 0" wide and 54' 0" long over bodywork. The 40 driving trailer thirds (as ordered) were to the shorter length of 48' 0" and a further 20 trailer composites, also to this length were also ordered to make up the train formations.

The motor luggage vans were 38' 5" long over bodywork and all these vehicles were loose coupled adding an extra 3' 7" to their overall length and therefore giving vehicles with overall lengths of 57' 7" (one) 51' 7" (three) and 42' 0" (one) which gave an overall length for a 5-car formation of 254' 4" and 508' 8" for two trains coupled together. The later standard length for an 8-car SR suburban train (3 car motor - 2 car trailer - 3 car motor) was about 515' and it may be possible that the need to keep the overall length of the new stock down led to the decision not to use all of the 54' driving trailer composites but to build a further twenty trailer composites to the shorter 48' length.

The orders as finally placed for construction of new rolling stock (known as the CW stock) reflected a further degree of muddle, which is perhaps not surprising in view of the many delays and changes to this scheme and the transition from being an LBSCR project to one completed by the newly formed Southern Railway, which was still struggling to put in place an overall management strategy for its three former constituent parts and set standards for further electrification schemes.

Metropolitan Carriage, Wagon and Finance Co. Ltd was eventually asked to provide twenty-one motor luggage vans and also built three driving trailer thirds (DTT) and a further three trailer composites (TC). Lancing works were instructed to reconvert twenty of the existing CW driving trailer composites (DTC) in use as steam stock to electric operation and to construct the remaining thirty-seven DTTs and seventeen TCs required. However, although all the 48' 0" underframes for these were fabricated at Lancing, the final seventeen of the DTTs and seven of the TCs were built at Eastleigh on the Lancing underframes.

LBSCR numbers had been reserved for all these new vehicles and Lancing produced vehicles carried these. However, both MCW&F and Eastleigh outshopped their vehicles carrying new numbers allocated by the SR. Furthermore, Lancing turned out their vehicles still in LBSCR umber livery whilst those from Eastleigh and MCW&F were painted in SR sage green livery so that it was not possible to form a complete train once delivered all in one livery as there were no DTC coaches in SR colours.

Each 5-car train of CW stock was 254' 4" long and weighed 158 tons and seated 64 first and 240 third class passengers.

‘CW’ Motor Luggage Vans

The motor luggage vans built at Saltley comprised a small full width driver's cab at each end, behind which was an equipment room 10' 3ľ" long, there being a side corridor along one side to allow the driver to pass through. At the centre of the vehicle was a guard's and luggage compartment 9' 9" long. There was a side access door on both sides of each cab incorporating a droplight window.

Both equipment compartments had a pair of double outward opening doors each side, there were no windows in these doors, but that towards the cab end had a set of ventilation louvres where a droplight would normally be found, the other door being plain.

Two further sets of ventilation louvres were placed in the bodyside between the cab and the louvered door, giving three matching sets of louvres towards each end of the bodywork on each side. The guard's compartment also had a pair of double doors each side, both these having droplights and there was a further Ľ light window adjacent.

Both cab ends had an observation light each side, between which was a sloping hood covering lights used to illuminate an enamel headcode plate which could be clipped into the space between the two observation lights. A whistle was mounted on the body pillar nearside of the driver’s observation light. Below these windows was an electric light, above which was a short horizontal spindle rod which could be rotated from within the cab to place a red lens over the lamp so that both head and tail indications could be displayed.

The usual AC air connections were placed on the cab end with two pipes in the centre for Train and Main Reservoir pipes and a further one at headstock level for the bow air system. Sockets were also provided on the headstock for jumper connections to adjacent trailer vehicles. As these vehicles were usually marshalled at the centre of trains these cabs were little used but were provided to give flexibility when shunting and in theory could be used at the leading end of a train if required.

Below the underframe between the bogies was the compressor and an air blower for motor cooling. Both bogies were steel plate framed with a wheelbase of 8' 9" and wheel diameter was 3' 7" and bogie centres were at 21' 5". Four 250hp motors supplied by General Electric Co. were fitted, one driving each axle.

On the roof there were four bows, two being used in a trailing mode in each direction, these being raised /lowered by air pressure. Roof equipment, which was all ‘live’ was surrounded by a wire mesh basket running right round the perimeter of the roof. Each equipment room contained the main transformers, high tension equipment, control contactors and air blower motors. These vehicles were 38' 5" long over bodywork and 8' 9" wide over footboards (these ran along the whole length of the vehicle), length over buffers being 42' 0". They weighed 62 tons.

The bodysides had wooden beading with curved corners to represent panelling and all were outshopped in SR livery with the vehicle number and ‘Southern Railway’ displayed in yellow shaded lettering at cantrail level whilst the word ‘Guard’ appeared on one of the luggage van doors. The SR issued diagram number 830 for these vehicles.

‘CW’ Driving Trailers

The driving trailer thirds consisted of a small full width cab with side door access. The door incorporated a droplight, there being no other side window to the cab. The cab end arrangement was virtually identical to that of the motor luggage van described above. Behind the cab were eight third class compartments all with the rather narrow width of 5' 2.5/8". Underframes were rod-trussed and the bogies were of 8' 0" wheelbase. Wooden beading along the bodyside with curved corners divided the bodyside into smaller panels. These vehicles seated 80 third and weighed 24 tons and were allocated the SR diagram number 738, though some were delivered bearing their LBSCR carriage numbers.

The driving trailer composites used in the CW stock had all been built earlier at Lancing and been altered for use as steam-hauled carriages pending the completion of the electrification. To make them suitable for electric use they were returned to Lancing and the steam heaters removed and replaced with electric heaters, the braking system altered to a two-pipe system and the lighting altered to a 300v supply provided from the motor luggage van. The cab also had to be fitted out with control equipment and the cab ends provided with head/tail lights and whistles etc. The finished cab end layout was virtually identical to those of the DTT and MLV coaches, again these cabs were mostly marshalled intermediately within the train and were rarely used other than for shunting.

Behind the cab were four first class compartments, each 6' 6.5/8" wide and four third compartments each 5' 8" wide. These coaches therefore seated 32 first and 40 third and weighed 24 tons. They were given SR diagram number 792, their LBSCR number having been 284 which was altered to 118 when converted to steam operation, and all entered service carrying their intended LBSCR carriage numbers and painted in LBSCR livery. The cab end was marshalled outermost against the DTT.

‘CW’ Trailer Composites

The trailer composites had bodies virtually identical to those of the DTCs except that they were mounted on a 48' underframe and the cab was therefore omitted. They again had four first and four third compartments to the same dimensions as those in the DTC coaches and weighed 24 tons and again seated 32 first and 40 third. Their SR diagram number was 768. Those built at Lancing entered service in LBSCR livery with their LBSCR numbers, whilst the MCW&F and Eastleigh built examples were in SR livery and carried SR carriage numbers. These coaches were marshalled with the third-class compartments adjacent to the MLV.

 

Operation & Maintenance

Trains did not maintain fixed formations though their make-up was constant and trains did get turned around in service so that the intermediate cab of the DTC sometimes faced South and sometimes North. These units were based at Selhurst depot for routine maintenance and received heavier attention at Peckham Rye repair shops.

They almost certainly ran from time to time on the Crystal Palace route at times of disruption, whether they could run in multiple with the CP stock however is unknown. Also unknown is whether the overhead equipment between Tulse Hill and Streatham Common which had no regular electric services scheduled to use it, was actually available for use for empty trains and stock movements. It would have been useful for movements from Selhurst depot to Peckham Rye, but there was an alternative route available via Crystal Palace.

As the CW stock became due for body overhauls they were hauled to Lancing and a number of the LBSCR liveried coaches were repainted into SR green and renumbered, but not all were done. Eventually it would have been possible in theory to form nine 5-car trains all in green livery, the remaining eleven still having at least one coach remaining in LBSCR colours.

 

Southern Railway & DC Electrification

The Southern Railway standardised on ‘750v’ DC Third Rail (as the future electrification system) decided to convert the LBSCR overhead system to Third Rail DC as soon as possible and plans were drawn up which involved the conversion of the existing overhead lines during 1928 and 1929.

Extensions to the ex-LSWR ‘600v’ DC electrification had been undertaken and major progress on electrifying the former SECR suburban lines made in 1925/26. Certainly, AC overhead electrification was in its infancy at the costs associated with modifying bridges and tunnels (particularly on the South-Eastern) must have formed part of that decision towards DC traction.

This conversion work went forward quite quickly and by June 1928 DC workings had been introduced covering most of the services from London Bridge, rendering the SL and most of the CP stock surplus; these trains being withdrawn for conversion to further DC electric vehicles.

The CW stock continued in operation on services out of Victoria, though some of the service patterns were amended at this time to fit in with the new DC services. Further stages of DC conversion in 1929 saw the CW stock progressively replaced and the last AC train ran from Victoria in the early hours of 22nd September 1929, after which much of the overhead wires were quickly removed, though some of the overhead support structures survived in situ for many years.

[It is believed the last AC OHLE gantry was at Wandsworth Common station (between platforms 3 & 4 across the Slow Lines) and brackets exist within Crystal Palace tunnel. In the retained cutting south of East Croydon, the recesses for the OHLE gantries can be seen’ some being used for colour-light signal gantries].

Conversion to DC stock

The redundant CW rolling stock was taken to Peckham Rye for electrical stripping before the passenger coaches were taken to the workshops at Ashford, Lancing or Eastleigh where they were converted for use as DC electric vehicles. The MLV vehicles were stored for some years between Streatham Hill and Balham until being taken to Eastleigh in 1933/34 and rebuilt as bogie goods brakevans.

The original guard's compartment remained, the former cabs and equipment rooms being removed and replaced by open verandas. The original heavy plate framed bogies (now devoid of motors) were retained as was some of the flush panelling of the bodysides, and braking was converted to vacuum with two brake cylinders mounted beneath the underframes.

Conversion of the passenger carriages of the CW stock to DC operations involved all of the coaches and also included some of the twenty DTC coaches built earlier at Lancing but never used in AC service. Four of the fourteen in steam use were used, along with four of the six built with the CP compartment layout.

Pull-Push Conversions

The remaining twelve which were never used in any form of electric unit were later converted to steam pull‑and‑push trailers. Of those converted, twenty-two became motor brake composites, converted at Ashford for units nos.1750 ‑ 1753, 1755 ‑ 1772. This involved removing the bodywork from the 54' underframe, these frames then being lengthened to 62'.

The bodies had the former cab removed and one of third-class compartments at the opposite end, this being replaced by a new cab and brakevan area. The bodies were then remounted onto the lengthened frames (not necessarily their original one) giving a new coach with a cab/van + 3 third + 4 first compartment layout. The last three conversions were mounted on new 62' underframes from Lancing, their own lengthened ones being reused elsewhere.

Trailer Set Conversions

The remaining four DTC coaches were converted at Lancing into 54' trailer thirds with little alteration other than downgrading the first-class compartments to third and converting the former cab into a five-seat coupe compartment. These vehicles were included in trailer sets nos.1181, 1184 /1185 & 1186.

Motor Brake (Third & Composite) Conversions

The forty DTT coaches from the CW stock were all converted into motor brake thirds at either Eastleigh (ten) or Ashford (thirty), this involving the removal of the bodies from the underframes which were then lengthened to 62' and the removal of the original cab and its replacement by a new cab and brakevan area. The altered bodies were then remounted onto the longer frames (again, not their original ones) and these coaches were used as parts of units nos.1728 ‑ 1736, 1740 ‑ 1770 & 1772. One of the rebuilt bodies was placed onto a new 62' Lancing frame during rebuilding.

The twenty TC coaches were all converted to motor brake composites, the work again being split between Eastleigh (10) and Ashford (10). Bodies were again removed from underframes which were lengthened to 62'. The bodies had the endmost third compartment removed and replaced by a new cab & brakevan area. All were remounted onto lengthened underframes (usually not their own) and these rebuilds were included in units nos.1728 ‑ 1736, 1740 ‑ 1749 & 1754.

Driving Trailer Composite Conversions

The six DTC coaches built at Lancing in 1919 to the CP compartment layout (3F/5T) but not used in AC trains also had four of them used for DC electric conversion, the other two remaining as steam hauled stock. These four became trailer composites, all being taken to Ashford for conversion where the bodies were removed from their underframes and the original disused cab removed. A further first-class compartment was added at this end and a further third-class at the other end resulting in vehicles with four first and six third-class compartments. One was remounted onto a lengthened frame whilst the other three went onto new 62' Lancing frames and these were then included in units nos.1769 ‑ 1772.

Details of all the ‘CW’ stock vehicles are shown in the following tables.

 

Motor Luggage Vans

Built by MCW&F to SR diagram number 830. All withdrawn in 1929 and later converted to bogie goods brakevans at Eastleigh. HO No.664 was issued to convert all these vans to timber trucks, this was then cancelled and replaced by HO No. E772 for a prototype conversion to a bogie goods brakevan (No.10108). The remainder were then done under HO No. E790, the new diagram number of the conversions was 1580.

 

‘CW’ Motor Luggage Vans
SR diagram number 830

SR
No.

Date
New

Date Converted

New
No.

Withdrawn Date

Withdrawn
from

Dept. Use

10101

Dec-23

Aug-34

56272

 

 

DS56272

10102

Dec-23

Jul-34

56273

 

 

DS56273

10103

Dec-23

Dec-34

56274

?

 

 

10104

Dec-23

Jul-34

56275

?

 

 

10105

Dec-23

Oct-34

56276

?

 

 

10106

Dec-23

Mar-34

56261

?

 

 

10107

Dec-23

Nay-34

56262

?

 

 

10108

Dec-23

Sep-33

56263

?

 

 

10109

Jan-24

Jun-34

56264

?

 

 

10110

Jan-24

Aug-34

56277

 

 

DS56277

10111

Jan-24

Jan-35

56278

Aug-43

 

 

10112

Jan-24

Mar-34

56265

?

 

 

10113

Jan-24

Apr-34

56266

?

 

 

10114

Jan-24

Mar-34

56267

?

 

 

10115

Jan-24

Apr-34

56268

?

 

 

10116

Jan-24

Jul-34

56279

?

 

 

10117

Mar-24

Nay-34

56269

?

 

 

10118

Mar-24

Sep-34

56270

Aug-59

 

DS56270

10119

Apr-24

Oct-34

56280

?

 

 

10120

Apr-24

Mar-34

56271

?

 

 

10121

Apr-24

Aug-34

56281

Dec-58

Ashford Jan-59

DS56281

10111 was lost to enemy action (location unknown).

 

The passenger vehicles converted for DC use virtually all had their bodies split from their underframes and the latter were then lengthened (at Lancing). Most bodies did not go back to their original frames, in the following tables, the new DC number of the body is shown above the number of the DC vehicle under which the underframe of the vehicle was reused.

 

 

Driving Trailer Composites

All built at Lancing to the CP compartment layout (Cab/3F/5T) and put into use as steam vehicles. LBSCR diagram Nos.285, SR diagram Nos.792 (electric) and 352 (steam). None ever saw use in AC units but four were converted as TCs for DC operation in 1930 and the remaining the remaining two steam vehicles were converted in 1932 for use in Pull-and-Push sets.,

 

‘CW’ Driving Trailer Composites
LBSCR Diagram No.283, SR Diagram No.792 (electric) and 352 (steam)

LBSCR
No.

Date
New

SR Steam No.

SR ‘AC’ No.

Date Renum.

Date Rebuilt

Works

SR ‘DC’ No.

Unit

Type

4107

Mar-21

6265

-

Nov-25

28-Jun-30

AFD

9480
4808

1769
1769

TC
TC

4108

Mar-21

6266

-

Apr-25

Jun-30

AFD

9481
9656

1770
1780

TC
TC

4109

Mar-21

6267

-

Oct-27

Jun-30

AFD

9483
9658

1772
1782

TC
TC

4110

Mar-21

6268

-

Jul-27

Jun-32

Conv to steam P&P TT 2193 for set 759

4111

Mar-21

6269

-

Oct-26

Jun-32

Conv to steam P&P TT 2194 for set 751

4112

Mar-21

6270

-

Oct-26

Jun-30

AFD

9482
9657

1771
1781

TC
TC

For further details of the steam Pull-and-Push conversions, see later notes.

 

 

Driving Trailer Composites

All built at Lancing. Nearly all stored uncompleted until late in 1920 when put into service as steam stock. LBSCR diagram Nos.284 (electric) and 118 (steam), SR diagram Nos. 792 (electric) and 352 (steam). Twenty reconverted to AC operation in 1925, whilst a further twenty remained in steam use. Only those shown with an SR AC number were repainted into SR livery whilst in AC service.

Most converted in 1930 to DC use, many as MBC coaches and four at TT coaches.

The steam survivors were converted in 1931/32 for use in Pull-and-Push sets.

 

‘CW’ Driving Trailer Composites
LBSCR Diagram No.284 (electric) and 118 (steam), SR Diagram No.792 (electric) and 352 (steam)

LBSCR
No.

Date
New

SR Steam No.

SR ‘AC’ No.

Date Renum.

Date Rebuilt

Works

SR ‘DC’ No.

Unit

Type

4077

1913

-

-

-

Mar-30

LANC

9292

1186

TT

4078

1914

-

9896

May-24

Jan-30

AFD

8886
9801

1751
1766

MBC
MBC

4079

1914

-

-

-

Apr-30

AFD

9803
8734

1768
1757

MBC
MBT

4080

1914

-

-

-

Mar-30

AFD

9801
8894

1766
1759

MBC
MBC

4081

1914

-

-

-

Mar-30

AFD

8898
8721

1763
1752

MBC
MBT

4082

1914

-

9900

May-24

Jan-30

AFD

8891
8890

1756
1755

MBC
MBC

4083

1914

-

-

-

Mar-30

AFD

8899
8900

1764
1765

MBC
MBC

4084

1914

Used as part of Crystal Palace fleet from new in 1914

4085

1914

Used as part of Crystal Palace fleet from new in 1914

4086

1914

-

9902

May-24

Jan-30

AFD

8887
8893

1752
1758

MBC
MBC

4087

1914

-

9903

May-24

Apr-30

AFD

9802
8896

1767
1761

MBC
MBC

4088

1914

-

-

-

Mar-30

AFD

8900
8745

1765
1768

MBC
MBT

4089

1915

-

-

-

Feb-30

AFD

8888
8886

1753
1751

MBC
MBC

4090

1915

-

-

-

Feb-30

AFD

8896
8741

1761
1764

MBC
MBT

4091

1915

-

-

-

Feb-30

AFD

8895
8737

1760
1760

MBC
MBT

4092

1915

-

9908

May-24

Feb-30

LANC

9282

1181

TT

4093

1915

-

9909

May-24

Feb-30

AFD

8897
8740

1762
1763

MBC
MBT

4094

1915

-

-

-

Feb-30

AFD

8893
9802

1758
1767

MBC
MBC

4095

1915

-

-

-

Jan-30

AFD

8885
8722

1750
1753

MBC
MBT

4096

1915

-

9912

May-24

Feb-30

AFD

8894
8897

1759
1762

MBC
MBC

4097

1915

-

 

May-24

Jan-30

AFD

8890
8889

1755
1754

MBC
MBC

4098

1915

 

9914

May-24

Feb-30

AFD

8892
8719

1757
1750

MBC
MBT

4099

1915

6251

-

Oct-24

Jun-30

AFD

9806
9815

1771
1780

MBC
MBC

4100

1915

6252

-

Nov-24

Apr-32

Conv to steam P&P TT 2186 for set 756

4101

1915

6253

-

Jun-25

May-32

Conv to steam P&P TT 2187 for set 758

4102

1915

6254

-

Nov-26

Mar-32

Conv to steam P&P TT 2188 for set 755

4103

1915

6255

-

Apr-27

Oct-31

Conv to steam P&P TT 2189 for set 754

4104

Dec-19

6256

-

Sep-24

Jun-30

AFD

9805
9816

1770
1781

MBC
MBC

4105

Dec-19

6257

-

Oct-27

Mar-31

Conv to steam P&P DTC 6939 for set 649

4106

Dec-19

6258

-

c.Oct-26

Apr-32

Conv to steam P&P TT 2190 for set 757

4113

Jun-21

6259

-

Dec-24

Jun-30

AFD

9807
9817

1772
1782

MBC
MBC

4114

Jun-21

6260

-

May-25

Jun-30

AFD

9804
9804

1769
1769

MBC
MBC

4115

Jun-21

6261

-

Jul-27

Mar-31

Conv to steam P&P DTC 6940 for set 650

4116

Jun-21

6262

-

Aug-25

Apr-32

Conv to steam P&P TT 2191 for set 753

4117

Jun-21

6263

-

Aug-26

Aug-26

Conv to steam P&P DTC 6941 for set 651

4118

Jun-21

6264

-

Jun-27

Jun-27

Conv to steam P&P TT 2192 for set 752

For further details of the steam Pull-and-Push conversions, see later notes.

 

 

 

Trailer Composites

Those built with LBSCR numbers remained in this livery whilst in AC service.

Those built with SR numbers were in SR livery (their intended LBSCR numbers are shown in italics and were never carried). SR diagram No. 768.

All subsequently converted for DC operation as MBC coaches.

 

‘CW’ Trailer Composites
SR Diagram No.768

LBSCR
No.

Date
New

Builder.

SR ‘AC’
No.

Date Rebuilt

Works

SR ‘DC’
No.

Unit

Type

4119

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jun-29

AFD

8863
8701

1728
1732

MBC
MBT

4120

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jun-29

ELGH

8875
8709

1740
1740

MBC
MBT

4121

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jul-29

ELGH

8879
8711

1744
1742

MBC
MBT

4122

Dec-23

LANC

-

Sep-29

AFD

8866
8698

1731
1729

MBC
MBT

4123

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jul-29

AFD

8867
8699

1732
1730

MBC
MBT

4124

Dec-23

LANC

-

Aug-29

AFD

8870
8868

1735
1733

MBC
MBC

4125

Dec-23

LANC

-

Aug-29

ELGH

8882
8867

1747
1732

MBC
MBC

4126

Dec-23

LANC

-

Aug-29

ELGH

8881
8881

1746
1746

MBC
MBC

4127

Jan-24

LANC

-

Jul-29

AFD

8868
8865

1733
1730

MBC
MBC

4128

Jun-24

LANC

-

Aug-29

ELGH

8884
8702

1749
1733

MBC
MBT

4129

Nov-23

LANC

9655

Aug-29

ELGH

8880
8700

1745
1731

MBC
MBT

4130

Nov-23

LANC

9656

Sep-29

AFD

8865
8864

1730
1729

MBC
MBC

4131

Dec-23

LANC

9657

Jul-29

ELGH

8878
8877

1743
1742

MBC
MBC

4132

Dec-23

LANC

9658

Jun-29

AFD

8864
8882

1729
1747

MBC
MBC

4133

Feb-24

ELGH

9661

Aug-29

AFD

8871
8884

1736
1749

MBC
MBC

4134

Feb-24

ELGH

9662

Jun-29

ELGH

8877
8716

1742
1747

MBC
MBT

4135

Feb-24

ELGH

9663

Jan-30

AFD

8889
8733

1754
1756

MBC
MBT

No. not allocated

Dec-23

MCWF

9672

Aug-29

AFD

8869
8870

1734
1735

MBC
MBC

No. not allocated

Dec-23

MCWF

9673

Aug-29

AFD

8883
8873

1748
1736

MBC
MBC

No. not allocated

Dec-23

MCWF

9674

Aug-29

AFD

8876
8704

1741
1735

MBC
MBT

 

 


Driving Trailer Thirds

Those built with LBSCR numbers remained in this livery whilst in AC service.

Those built with SR numbers were in SR livery (their intended LBSCR numbers are shown in italics and were never carried). SR diagram no. 738.

All subsequently converted for DC operation as MBT coaches.

 

‘CW’ Driving Trailer Thirds
SR Diagram No.738

LBSCR
No.

Date
New

Builder.

SR ‘AC’
No.

Date Rebuilt

Works

SR ‘DC’
No.

Unit

Type

3268

Dec-23

LANC

-

Feb-30

AFD

8735
8744

1758
1767

MBT
MBT

3269

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jan-30

ELGH

8731
8891

1754
1756

MBT
MBC

3270

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jul-29

AFD

8702
8710

1733
1741

MBT
MBT

3271

Dec-23

LANC

-

Aug-29

ELGH

8714
8878

1745
1743

MBT
MBC

3272

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jun-29

ELGH

8743
8736

1766
1759

MBT
MBT

3273

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jun-29

ELGH

8711
8869

1742
1734

MBT
MBC

3274

Dec-23

LANC

-

Mar-30

AFD

8717
8879

1748
1744

MBT
MBC

3275

Dec-23

LANC

-

Mar-30

AFD

8738
8899

1761
1764

MBT
MBC

3276

Dec-23

LANC

-

Sep-29

ELGH

8712
8712

1743
1743

MBT
MBT

3277

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jan-30

AFD

8720
8743

1751
1766

MBT
MBT

3278

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jun-29

AFD

8698
8697

1729
1728

MBT
MBT

3279

Dec-23

LANC

-

Aug-29

ELGH

8715
8715

1746
1746

MBT
MBT

3280

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jun-30

AFD

8749
8564

1772
1782

MBT
MBT

3281

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jan-30

AFD

8733
8732

1756
1755

MBT
MBT

3282

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jun-29

AFD

8697
8875

1728
1740

MBT
MBC

3283

Dec-23

LANC

-

Jun-30

AFD

8746
8746

1769
1769

MBT
MBT

3284

Jun-24

LANC

-

Feb-30

AFD

8736
8739

1759
1762

MBT
MBT

3285

Jun-24

LANC

-

Jan-30

AFD

8722
8720

1753
1751

MBT
MBT

3286

Jun-24

LANC

-

Feb-30

AFD

8737
8895

1760
1760

MBT
MBC

3287

Jun-24

LANC

-

Jul-29

AFD

8701
8866

1732
1731

MBT
MBC

No. not allocated

Dec-23

MCWF

-

Jul-29

ELGH

8713
8718

1744
1749

MBT
MBT

No. not allocated

Dec-23

MCWF

-

Aug-29

ELGH

8718
8717

1749
1748

MBT
MBT

No. not allocated

Dec-23

MCWF

-

Sep-29

AFD

8700
8863

1731
1728

MBT
MBC

3288

Nov-23

ELGH

9172

Jan-30

AFD

8734
8885

1757
1750

MBT
MBC

3289

Nov-23

ELGH

9173

Jan-30

AFD

8721
8735

1752
1758

MBT
MBT

3290

Nov-23

ELGH

9174

Aug-29

AFD

8703
8880

1734
1745

MBT
MBC

3291

Nov-23

ELGH

9175

Apr-30

AFD

8745
8892

1768
1757

MBT
MBC

3292

Nov-23

ELGH

9176

Jan-30

AFD

8719
8888

1750
1753

MBT
MBC

3293

Nov-23

ELGH

9177

Jun-29

ELGH

8709
8876

1740
1741

MBT
MBC

3294

Nov-23

ELGH

9178

Aug-29

AFD

8705
8713

1736
1744

MBT
MBT

3295

Nov-23

ELGH

9179

Aug-29

AFD

8704
8714

1735
1745

MBT
MBT

3296

Feb-24

ELGH

9180

Sep-29

AFD

8699
8703

1730
1734

MBT
MBT

3297

Feb-24

ELGH

9181

Apr-30

AFD

8744
8738

1767
1761

MBT
MBT

3298

Feb-24

ELGH

9182

Aug-29

ELGH

8716
8705

1747
1736

MBT
MBT

3299

Feb-24

ELGH

9183

Mar-30

AFD

8740
8887

1763
1752

MBT
MBC

3300

Feb-24

ELGH

9184

Mar-30

AFD

8741
8742

1764
1765

MBT
MBT

3301

Feb-24

ELGH

9185

Mar-30

AFD

8739
8898

1762
1763

MBT
MBT

3302

Feb-24

ELGH

9186

Jun-29

ELGH

8710
8883

1741
1748

MBT
MBC

3303

Feb-24

ELGH

9187

Mar-30

AFD

8742
9803

1765
1768

MBT
MBT

3304

Feb-24

ELGH

9188

Jan-30

AFD

8732
8731

1755
1754

MBT
MBT

 

 

Driving Trailer Composites
(Steam Hauled Coaches)

The following section gives a brief summary of the history of the twelve ‘CW’ driving trailer composites which entered service as steam hauled coaches and were in fact never used in electric units. Ten of these were to LBSCR diagram number 118, later SR diagram number 352. These consisted of cab (disused), four first and four third-class compartments. The cab was 4' 0˝" wide, the first-class compartments 6' 6.5/8" wide and the thirds 5' 8" wide.

The remaining two coaches were built to the ‘CP’ layout with three first class compartments (again 6' 6.5/8" wide) and five third class compartments each 5' 10" wide. These coaches were to LBSCR diagram number 100, later SR diagram number 353.

All these coaches had been renumbered from their ‘electric’ numbers into a new ‘steam’ series during body overhauls at Lancing at various dates between 1924 and 1927 when they were repainted into SR green livery. They retained the disused cab (still retaining the end windows and now used as a luggage compartment) during these overhauls and continued in use in loco-hauled trains on the former LBSCR system at this stage as they still retained their air braking system. These initial renumbering’s were as follows:

 

‘CW’ Driving Trailer Composites
(Steam Hauled Coaches)

Electric
No.

Steam
No.

Date Renum.

Type

P&P
No.

Set
No.

Type

Withdrawal
Date

4100

6252

Nov-24

CW

2186

756

TT

8-Jul-44

4101

6253

Jun-25

CW

2187

758

TT

2-Aug-58

4102

6254

Nov-26

CW

2188

755

TT

29-Nov-58

4103

6255

Apr-27

CW

2189

754

TT

26-Jan-38

4105

6257

18-Oct-27

CW

6939

649

DTBC

18-Aug-37

4106

6258

Oct-26

CW

2190

757

TT

18-Jul-59

4110

6268

Jul-27

CP

2193

759 /37

TT

c.Dec-60

4111

6269

Oct-26

CP

2194

751

TT

13-Dec-39

4115

6261

21-Jul-27

CW

6940

650

DTBC

19-Sep-59

4116

6262

Aug-25

CW

2191

753

TT

28-Mar-59

4117

6263

Aug-26

CW

6941

651

DTBC

4-Oct-58

4118

6264

9-Jun-27

CW

2192

752

TT

13-Dec-39

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 In 1931, three of these coaches were converted (two at Brighton and one at Lancing) into pull-and-push driving trailer brake composites, these all being former CW layout coaches. Conversion involved alteration to vacuum braking and fitment of the air control system between the cab and the locomotive.

The former cab and adjacent first-class compartment were merged into a cab and brakevan area 10' 8" long. A pair of doors were provided each side, that for the guard opening inwards. The cab end retained the two observation windows, distinguishing these coaches from other LBSCR push-and-pull trailers which had four smaller cab windows on the cab end.

As modified these coaches then seated 24 first and 40 third and were renumbered 6939 - 6941. Each coach was paired with an 8-compartment third and became pull-and-push sets 649 - 651 allocated to the Eastern Section as reliefs. The thirds in sets 649 and 650 were ex. LSWR coaches, whilst that in set 651 was ex. LBSCR No. 1960. The LSWR coach in set 650 was later replaced by an LBSCR coach no. 2087. Conversion details were as follows:

 

Number

Date

Works

6939

18-Mar-31

Brighton

6940

27-May-31

Brighton

6941

20-May-31

Lancing

 

The remaining nine coaches (seven to the CW layout and two to the CP layout) were all converted to trailer thirds late in 1931 /early 1932. This involved altering the braking to vacuum and downgrading all the compartments to third-class and installation of pipework for the air control system of the pull-and-push sets.

The disused cab had already been converted to a luggage compartment and this was retained, in some sets this was marshalled against the locomotive whilst in others it was located at the centre of the two-coach set against the driving trailer. These trailer thirds, now seating 80 third, were then included in pull-and-push sets 751 - 759 (not in number order) replacing earlier similar ex. LBSCR 8-compartment thirds. These sets were then allocated to the Central & Eastern section, working at various times on all the branch lines where pull-and-push working was in operation.

Further details of these pull-and-push sets are shown in the following tables.

 

Pull-and-Push Sets
LBSCR ‘Arc-roof’ Sets Nos.649 - 651

These sets were formed in 1931 using newly-converted driving trailer brake composites (ex ‘CW’ DTC coaches) and an 8-compartment third, two of these (498 and 499) being ex. LSWR coaches whilst the remaining one (1960) was an ex. LBSCR coach. TT 498 was withdrawn 31st August 1932 and replaced by similar 500.

All three of these LSWR coaches had been built at Eastleigh during 1902, on 48' underframes and with electric lighting from new. Their original LSWR numbers were nos.551 (498), 553 (499) and 560 (500).

The LBSCR coach 1960 had been built at Brighton in June 1903 and was also new with electric lighting. The eight compartments were all 5' 9˝" wide. The coach was given its SR number in July 1926.

Overall sets nos.649 ‑ 651 were 103' 2" long and weighed about 45 tons, seating 24 first and 120 third.

The LSWR coach 499 in set no.650 was withdrawn in October 1934 and part of its bodywork converted into a DC electric coach, MBT 9867 for 2 NOL unit no.1819. It was replaced by a further ex. LBSCR 8-compartment third 2087, this coach having been built as LBSCR no. 1215 about June 1895 by contractors Brown, Marshalls & Co. Ltd of Birmingham. It was new with gas lighting.

This coach had been renumbered 2087 by the SR in July 1927 and the body was then remounted onto a new 48' underframe during 1930 when the coach was also converted to electric lighting. It was then further modified for pull-and-push working in 1932 and formed into set 650 from October 1934.

These sets ran in SR green livery, the two survivors through into the BR era being repainted in red livery about 1950, though set 651 may have reverted to green before withdrawal. Set 650 was scrapped at Newhaven late in 1959 still in the red livery applied in 1950.

 

Pull-Push Sets No.649-651
LBSCR ‘Arc-roof’ Sets

 

SR
No.

Formed
Date

DBTC

TT

Reformed Date

Withdrawn
Date

Scrapped

Notes

Diag. No.

 

 

12 (LSWR)

 

 

 

 

649

Mar-31

6939

498
500

Mar-31
Sep-32

18-Aug-37

18-Aug-37 (body)

U/frame to 9140

650

Mar-31

6940

499
2087

Mar-31
Oct-34

19-Sep-59

Newhaven

 

Diag. No.

 

 

(LBSCR 48’)

 

 

 

 

651

Mar-31

6941

1960

Mar-31

4-Oct-58

Newhaven

 

 

 

Allocations of Pull-Push Sets Nos.649-651

These sets then worked on the Allhallows and Westerham branches; later could sometimes be seen based at Horsham for services to both Guildford & Brighton. Later sample allocations were as follows:

 

Date

Set 649

Set 650

Set 651

1931

SE Relief

SE Relief

SE Relief

1934/5

Hythe

Westerham

SE Relief

1939

 

Bexhill West

Bexhill West

1945

 

 

SE Relief

Set no.650 was working on the Ashford - Hastings/New Romney lines in Summer 1958.

 

LBSCR ‘Arc-roof’ Sets Nos.751-760

These sets were formed in late 1925 /early 1926. The DTBC Coaches were all ex. LBSCR coaches which had been rebuilt at Lancing in 1909 and 1911. The LBSCR converted ten coaches into pull-and-push driving trailers at this time for use in the suburban area on branch line and shuttle services.

Each coach was formed of a former five-compartment six-wheeled coach with the body remounted onto a new 54' underframe. The compartments were 5' 10Ľ" wide. Two new first-class compartments were then added, these being 6' 10˝" wide and a cab and luggage area at the end, 10' Ľ" wide. The cab area was entered by a single sliding door which slightly inset and slid back inside the luggage compartment. The cab end had four quite deep observation windows arranged in two pairs and the cab end was fully panelled. These coaches then weighed about 25 tons and seated 16 first and 50 third.

The final six conversions had identical bodies to the first four, but the third-class compartment adjacent to the new firsts was also fitted out as a further first (despite being to third class dimensions) so these coaches seated 24 first and 40 third. They were numbered as 630 ‑ 639, (630 ‑ 634 having the 2F/5T compartment layout).

These coaches were then put into service from October 1909, usually operating in pairs with one marshalled each side of the locomotive on suburban services. Early services worked were the Epsom Downs branch, with four coaches allocated, two each based at Sutton and West Croydon, whilst their use then spread to include local shuttles from Streatham to Wimbledon, West Croydon to Wimbledon and West Croydon - Crystal Palace - Coulsdon North. All these cars remained working on these services into SR days, the first to lose LBSCR umber livery being 636 when it was repainted green and renumbered 6933 in April 1924.

The SR then decided to form ten two-coach pull-and-push sets using these ten driving trailers paired with an 8-compartment 48' third. These sets were formed between November 1925 and January 1926 and the DTBCs were all renumbered as 6927 ‑ 6936 at this time, the coaches being repainted in SR green livery at this stage.

The 8-compartment thirds used were also ex. LBSCR coaches and were allocated to sets in the order mos.2061, 2039, 2002, 2038, 2007, 1995, 1967, 1963 and 2110. These had all been built at Brighton between 1898 and 1904, one (1266) having been built with gas lighting and subsequently converted to electricity by the LBSCR, whilst all the others had electric lighting from new.

When formed these sets were therefore 107' 2" long overall and weighed about 46 tons. The first four seated 16 first and 130 third whilst the last six seated 24 first and 120 third. All had the LBSCR air operated motor-train control system and retained Westinghouse air brakes.

During August 1928 set no.754 was fitted with vacuum braking (alongside the Westinghouse system) and was used to tour around various motor-worked branch lines whilst the SR decided on which control system from the former constituents should be adopted as standard for the SR system.

The LBSCR air system was found to be the most reliable, the wire system used by the LSWR and the rotating underfloor rod system used by the SECR then being abandoned. However, the LBSCR sets were altered to vacuum braking between November 1929 and February 1930, though retaining the air operated control system.

Sets Nos.751-760 Reformations

During the early 1930's the large number of former LBSCR 8-compartments thirds were being rapidly withdrawn, and this included those allocated to sets nos.751 ‑ 760. They were all therefore replaced between early 1931 and late 1932 by newer 8-compartment thirds, these being the 9 surviving ‘CW’ driving trailer composites never used for electric working. At this time the panelling on the cab ends of the DTBCs was altered to plainer steel. Set no.760 was disbanded when its 8-compartment third was withdrawn.

These sets were then allocated to the Central and Eastern sections, with the majority initially working on the Eastern section. A few were withdrawn in SR days but others survived into BR ownership and were repainted into Crimson Lake livery about 1950, these last not being withdrawn until 1958 /1959.

Set No.37 Reformation

When set no.759 was withdrawn in 1954, its ex. ‘CW’ trailer third 2193 was transferred to Set no.37, replacing ex. LSWR coach 608 which was withdrawn. The driving trailer in this set was numbered 6410. This coach had started life as an SECR composite brake lavatory, built at Ashford in July 1916 numbered 1342. It was 60' 1" long over bodywork with bogie centres at 43' 6" and as construction took place during the war, the bodysides were plain panelled with no mouldings. It consisted of a guard's brake 12' 4˝" wide, five third compartments each 6' 0" wide and two second compartments both 6' 5˝" wide.

Between the second and third compartments were two lavatories, side by side one serving the two second compartments via a side corridor, the other three of the thirds, again via a side corridor, this being on the opposite side to the corridor in the second-class section of the coach. There was no access between the toilet compartments, the width of these being 3' 8". If the brakevan end was leading, the third corridor was on the offside, the second on the nearside.

As a result of this odd arrangement, the first two thirds were standard closed compartments each seating 10, the next one seating 8, five along one side, three the other where the corridor commenced, whilst the remaining two seated 6, with three-aside seating and the corridor running past them. The second adjacent to the lavatory seated 6, again with three-aside seating and the corridor running past, whilst the final second at the coach end had a five aside seat across the coach end facing a three-aside seat. Overall capacity was therefore 13 second and 40 third.

This coach was new with electric lighting but no heating, though it was fitted with a through steam pipe. It was allocated to ‘trio-set’ 198, this set being fitted with steam heaters in June 1921. The set was renumbered 630 by the SR in July 1927 and the coach was renumbered 3530 at this time. This set was disbanded in 1941, possibly as a result of enemy action damage and 3530 was then converted in June to a steam pull-and-push driving trailer composite with four cab windows fitted into the brakevan end.

Both the lavatories were removed, though the corridors survived leading nowhere. The second-class seating was upgraded to first-class with the same layout so now the coach seated 13 first and 40 third. The coach was then renumbered as 6410 in the brake composite series and was a loose vehicle until formed with ex. LSWR third 608 as set no.37 in May 1947, allocated to the Central Section. Third 608 was then withdrawn in July 1954 and replaced by 2193 as mentioned above.

 

Pull-Push Sets No.751-760
LBSCR ‘Arc-roof’ Sets

SR
No.

Formed
Date

DBTC

TT

Reformed Date

Withdrawn
Date

Scrapped

751

Dec-25

6927

2272#
2061

2194

Oct-25
Dec-31

13-Dec-39

DTBC?
2061 to 1548S

752

Nov-25

6928

2273#
2039
2192

Oct-25
Jan-31

13-Dec-39

DTBC ?
2192 to 1546S

753

Nov-25

6929

2274#
2002
2191

Oct-25
Apr-31

28-Mar-59

Newhaven

754

Nov-25

6930

2275#
2038
2189

Oct-25
Oct-31

26-Jan-38

?

755

Nov-25

6931

2276#
2007
2188

Oct-25
Mar-32

29-11-58

Newhaven

756

Dec-25

6932

2277#
1995
2186

Oct-25
Apr-32

8-Jul-44

New Cross Gate

757

Jan-26

6933

2278#
1967
2190

Oct-25
Apr-31

18-Jul-59

Newhaven

758

Fe-26

6934

2279#
1963
2187

Oct-25
May-32

2-Aug-58

Lancing?

759

Jan-26

6935

2280#
2110
2193

Oct-25
Oct-31

3-Jul-54

‘London Bridge’

Notes

#

54ft trailer to electric stock 1925

 

Pull-Push Set No. 37
SECR Non-corridor stock (one LSWR coach, later LBSCR)

SR
No.

Formed
Date

DBTC

TT

Reformed Date

Withdrawn
Date

Scrapped

Diag. No.

 

 

19 (608)
80 (2193)

 

 

 

37

May-47

6410

608
2193

Jun-41
Jul-54

c.Dec-60

Newhaven

                       

 

 

Allocations of Pull-Push Sets Nos.751-759

 Initial allocations for these sets was to the Central/Eastern sections. In 1935 sets were allocated as follows:

751

Gillingham (Relief)

756

Paddock Wood

752

Horsham

757

Gillingham

753

Cranleigh

758

Gillingham

754

Ashford

759

Gillingham

755

Relief (Eastern)

 

 

Set no.758 had worked Ford - Littlehampton prior to moving to the Eastern section.

1939

Following withdrawal of sets 751 and 752 in December 1939 (probably due to wartime service cuts) both the ex. ‘CW’ trailer thirds were taken into departmental stock in July 1940, both being allocated to the loco running department.

2192 became 1546S allocated to Bournemouth Central Loco Depot and withdrawn during 1948.

2194 became 1548S allocated to St Leonards Loco Depot, withdrawn ????

1941

In 1941 set no.753 was allocated to the Central section; sets nos.755 ‑ 759 to the Eastern section.

1944

In 1944 set no.753 was allocated to the Central section, set no.755 to the Eastern section and sets nos.757 ‑ 759 to the Central section. Set no.755 was usually based at Ashford for Hastings /New Romney services.

When set no.759 was withdrawn in Jul‑54, the CW coach moved into set no.37 which was also a Central allocated set until withdrawal. DTBC 6935 was broken-up by London Bridge C&W staff (exact location unknown) 21st July 1954.

Set no.756 was withdrawn July 1944 (possibly the result of enemy action damage) and both coach bodies broken‑up at New Cross Gate 8th July 1944, the underframes being cut‑up at Mitcham Jct.

 

 

 

­­Thanks go to John Atkinson for preparing this article and Colin Watts (aka TL Wainscot) for additional material & editorial content.

In memory of J.F. Watts who recalled seeing the CP/CW stock in his childhood.

 

 

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